From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 12 10:14:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67537106566C for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:14:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from mxout006.mail.hostpoint.ch (mxout006.mail.hostpoint.ch [217.26.49.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1E98FC15 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:14:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from [10.0.2.20] (helo=asmtp002.mail.hostpoint.ch) by mxout006.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LXYa1-000GsP-F3; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:01 +0100 Received: from [82.136.101.181] (helo=maxlor.mine.nu) by asmtp002.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtpa (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LXYa1-000KJr-7m; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:01 +0100 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by maxlor.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AB52E555; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:01 +0100 (CET) X-Authenticated-Sender-Id: mail@maxlor.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at atlantis.intranet Received: from maxlor.mine.nu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlantis.intranet [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2T9pw1eKukLw; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from ws-blu.intranet (vimur.intranet [10.0.0.254]) by maxlor.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1DDC2E3A7; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:00 +0100 (CET) From: Benjamin Lutz To: Alexander Leidinger Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:13:58 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <200902090957.27318.mail@maxlor.com> <200902111821.53437.mail@maxlor.com> <20090212104119.45583e6fcp63gcmc@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <20090212104119.45583e6fcp63gcmc@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Face: $Ov27?7*N,h60fIEfNJdb!m,@#4T/d; 1hw|W0zvsHM(a$Yn6BYQ0^SEEXvi8>D`|V*F"=?utf-8?q?=5F+=0A=09R2?=@Aq>+mNb4`,'[[%z9v0Fa~]AD1}xQO3|>b.z&}l#R-_(P`?@Mz"kS; XC>Eti,i3>%@=?utf-8?q?g=3F=0A=094f?=,\c7|Ghwb&ky$b2PJ^\0b83NkLsFKv|smL/cI4UD%Tu8alAD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200902121113.58828.mail@maxlor.com> Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OPIE considered insecure X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:14:03 -0000 Hi Alexander, On Thursday 12 February 2009 10:41:19 Alexander Leidinger wrote: > - Implement something which is similar o freeauth.org, just better > implemented and without the "not so good" stuff / design decissions. > > Short: they need something you know (PIN) + something you have (e.g. > token, or mobile phone with java with some fixed key). You then enter > your arbitrary long PIN into the phone, and it will give you a time > limited key to login (so the time needs to be in sync to some extend). > On the machine you login you need the cleartext version of your PIN, > the fixed key, and ideally it saves the the PW you just used to login > to prevent a relogin with the same PW. If you've seen the remote login > tokens from RSA or similar, then you should get the idea what this is > about. I've stumbled accross freeauth.org while researching the subject. The reason I didn't consider it is because so far I've been just printing out my otps, and that's no longer possible with freeauth.org. And there are situations where I can't run a Java program on my phone, for example when I'm using the phone as a bluetooth modem. I'm not saying that time-based pws wouldn't be nice to have, it just goes in a different direction than OPIE, so it's not what I'm looking for at the moment. Also, the thought of having to write programs in J2ME again horrifies me :) > I wrote down a while ago the algorithm somewhere (based upon my own > thoughts how to do it, this was before I've seen freeauth, so it's > independent), and also thought about the bells and whistles (some > security pitfalls you need to think about). If you are interested in > implementing this (ideally with a BSD license for inclusion into the > base system) While I most probably won't implement freeauth.org, I'd still like to see your notes; the security pitfalls you considered are likely there for other algorithms too. Cheers Benjamin