From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 20:43:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAA7331544 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:43:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dHmG00G4z3c0y for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:43:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.236.150]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MTOZQ-1jX00J3JDI-00Tod7; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 22:43:03 +0200 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:43:03 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-Id: <20200604224303.9aff5dea.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200604223041.71e07383@archlinux> References: <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604212336.8fe541cd.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604223041.71e07383@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kX335Qs1++mi6Eo4kLk3rzq7REjsLz6PauLFhag6hvEKq5mX8e7 yynmNy0cZP4WfjvwEq66Ve3GrgjQueoGy5oMR8vgzUbwpoNE/5xXRHauXK4YUYVjOfhSrr4 RuyhkwKVPTC3BXe7LpFNYW3vCWuqnA1d2fLEbnN87RD8zp1qc5HOjnq1LxW9jaInbf029DM YMYkUsTMn2/+8UTcomGYQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:exQnEYGkosc=:MAx5BYvsA845Q8Buwj3DRG T62tbinfhj5a//ZnTgA69B0zyqEjnDzBkjndC8A3ZwrXaaeBijSLfTeyKpTGoMKs7/MudmOLj PGiUPjmNtWvlusdSZ9GWd9a1gpj7U8qCPQZq0ueKmpZGb9aJIi0Gw4uBKUHRXy5QwZV+0TucP Q6CSY+9RvBNARAlkZp6Sd+OOGY3Fb3yA3bwnPjomoE1X/aQt070NC/QxMAaceoCwpRAgVEJtR fWiy/gMzW1pBbzZ1ASRBLnQWmA/2kl/Pr8VA7tE9jy3/GR6UPxrHq2aN6WEYG5hZafBXTaX4n j1pey6kVXf8v2Rat8aOFyEzNYykY9zm5WEABAQE5N8ekKxUJFL+6B0Qnr+DaiqqdbgVdLCxb7 LgYXTmtfRxxQsxhxpCocBHWnD9rKgQHGXuJiRLHrFvXvlU2Fobh54lo7ohEf631pJDRGJjLY0 cPSTz+6eBUoAgBGaBVQQNjZqxReZVmGk+vZQditUjLv5Y+OFHBVyKqM8LESHwHqPRwmmitia0 a7r6IQD3bqMLydlgcZlqmZRIaUdY6ovZ2s55NqHagrP4s1BueXTONRIleAomXTSI6eC0hRMfh pWWot4uDXjcsH4PH0hel/FmBXXBV/Yj/UoQ/cf51ywILYqgFob86fn1iNS9PDv4Lzr25MtNnb uCWehxu4DSRmun3H8GNjj/wlmedsvtn6qRpt0Wl8AiSO0Lb3SpkzLZMoNt2GK8tSkFneL8YCQ IkoCx+cF/KLqdUYyRFO739+pSy/idMLeBYSMSLZVbhAAoxKoaVbGg7DyHSzn9jL24md/LP6RC 5nG0EKLmkvfxq2UeC599iLkMAV79m9U2+GuiCkNnKzLr/uXCoDrGB3pxkJcQoJTC5YRVHvW X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dHmG00G4z3c0y X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.79 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.21)[-0.213]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.236.150:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.48)[-0.476]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.08)[0.079]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 20:43:11 -0000 On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:30:41 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 21:23:36 +0200, Polytropon wrote: > >Again, the primary tool here is a text editor. Advanced editors > >[...] are able to display and edit shell scripts [...] in a > >convenient way. > > An important feature is "syntax highlighting". Definitely true - it helps a lot. > FWIW there's nothing > wrong with using a GUI editor and keeping your goal in mind, you > probably should take a look at IDEs. Depends. In my experience, IDEs tend to add complexity for no real benefit, especially in the realm of shell scripts and Makefiles. However, in more complex projects, especially in relation to Java and Android development, they can be quite useful. While some people suggest to _start_ with IDEs, I would rather say the opposite: Start with simple pieces that you can understand, see how they work together; understand the UNIX philosophy. If you have done so, move to a more complex world where those tools are integrated (the 'I' in 'IDE'), so you know what's happening "under the hood", which is important to know (!) if you want to be a port maintainer. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. And if your focus is manpages, there's another interesting option: The Midnight Commander has a built-in manpage viewer, and its editor has syntax highlighting for manpages (and I even have my own custom colors for that): Move the cursor to a manpage source file, press PF4 and edit it; save and exit, then press PF3 and see how it renders. Of course there is nothing wrong with utilizing mcedit and mcview in combination with a FAM (file alteration monitor) so you can see the update immediately after saving your changes. "Computer: Alterieren!" ;-) > Non-GUI editors are more or > less only required for emergencies, in the worst case only Vi is > available on UNIXoid platforms, so it's worse to use it for a few > days, before possibly migrating to another editor. YMMV! Well, vim in a X terminal is a non-GUI editor, but I would hardly call it "for emergencies". :-) Additionally, there's always gvim; it adds icons and hierarchical menus, and you can still have all the power of regular vim. And don't get me started of how emacs, being a TUI editor, is one of the most powerful development environments, because it is hard for me to explain this because the magic and power of emacs never really occured to me (I'm too stupid for that), and I have developed into a "vi person", but that doesn't make me "look down" on emacs - it's the opposite: it's such a great and powerful tool that I don't even understand it. ;-) By the way, FreeBSD has both vi and ee (more obvious user interface!) in the standard system for decades, so whenever you have a problem, "ee /etc/rc.conf" is probably the more convenient thing to do than "vi /etc/rc.conf"... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...