From owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Wed Feb 26 19:18:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CAD2419E8 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:18:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maciphone2@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48SQZ60GZ2z4WmG for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:18:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maciphone2@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id l5so139214wrx.4 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:18:21 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=IR+/6PJSIzrN0FinnkRlMfdhHPFNDxaEWWrT9e4bkEs=; b=CwiR9W3SW47Xk1MFcKruv0kqeYwKyyL0SyScTsViBmgp9+ROCqKUj6lHe7Ed19k5/M 0qtm5NoGsbcmEcvr1W945oIAM6Xlc4P6aIsqwnSgBVNdO0EHoFxQ4oAXxnRgKPFye3Ix K10/eS1EuCOhrmLkIpAdNGR4XEepCdtb7KtolwJClXDjwzA7sc3OIOgkTHTOTipo051q Hd0vZUtJoo0DiQYriiXu+dA9APBxvrEAH2ZT6PvBiQrZwyfd2f/UXcYYA9fkPIxtfe/x hJTTZyugn2mEe2a5I5evu7Fw7Qi4l3t5KjWIbCsxw1OeQXYsfHs7CfdsTYe0LoXufWct LeoA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXaSJen3QawqaBp+uHD2tkzHX9Df/Rz3IQOcZaBTSTBLTRMEsw8 /92KlFKQPAkc9msuh46h0BztFKF4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLTVI+fDpInjmX7NvaGxdJ7cFynXeqa/M40916XRm259nBDRiPXFq5sNTe6xPm4MpkwkBCgw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:a411:: with SMTP id d17mr172112wra.126.1582744700393; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.167] (x2f7fc2d.dyn.telefonica.de. [2.247.252.45]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 4sm3963479wmg.22.2020.02.26.11.18.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Klaus_K=C3=BCchemann?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.60.0.2.5\)) Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:18:17 +0100 References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <20200226164559.GA82128@www.zefox.net> <20200226173558.GB82128@www.zefox.net> <0D016DDF-3B87-4553-8B0C-CDF322DF7C64@googlemail.com> <20200226184624.GA82440@www.zefox.net> To: bob prohaska , freebsd-arm@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20200226184624.GA82440@www.zefox.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.60.0.2.5) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48SQZ60GZ2z4WmG X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.88 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[45.252.247.2.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[45.252.247.2.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.36)[-0.357,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.26)[-0.261,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[a.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.22), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.41), asn: 15169(-1.67), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:18:23 -0000 > Am 26.02.2020 um 19:46 schrieb bob prohaska : >=20 > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 07:02:03PM +0100, Klaus K??chemann wrote: >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe@freebsd.org??? >>=20 >> Don`t judge yourself so hard to non-skilled, >=20 > I've worked with skilled programmers, very clearly I'm not good at=20 > what's required. >=20 > My question about compilers was both sincere (new hardware needs new = machine > language, which means new assembler, which means new code generator = backend) > and a way to open the discussion to other constraints on ARM = development for > FreeBSD. Aarch64-compiler has changed to clang ( I guess some weeks ago or so), clang is not the bottleneck and not a very new tool which nobody knows, = for BSD sometimes the bottleneck is manpower .. manpower doesn=E2=80=99t = necessarily mean that you have to study all assembler-code until you = understand every line(while some devs do understand that all:-) The (BSD-)world does not have to be reinvented for aarch64 either, Sometimes it can help to adopt code which is available elsewhere =E2=80=A6= All matters is the time you can invest, not only the skills you have > There are allusions to lack of documentation, The code is the documentation but you are right: We need to make more information more public in human readable = Textform.. > no doubt true, and > vague references to politics, possibly true. There are also = institutional > interests at stake. One or two big donors have vast influence. I'm = trying > to elicit an estimate of how many small donors it takes to influence = FreeBSD. Please give a little onliner-code-donation or so for the beginning.. = ;-)=20 >=20 > It's worth noting that a very natural Tier-1 platform, Cavium Thunder = X, does > not seem to be anywhere in sight. I really thought it would emerge = first, long > before any of the SBC platforms got serious traction. I have no use = for Cavium, > but expected it to have ample support among big FreeBSD users. Not = so=E2=80=A6.. Right, public users don=E2=80=99t own that machines .. >=20 > I switched to Raspberry Pi because it was a cheap, relatively easy way = to > replace old i386 hardware. It seemed an obvious choice in 2016. Maybe > not now. The problem is then to identify a replacement. There are more = and > more choices coming to market, I'm trying to figure out what the = community > (developers and users) will settle on. So far there's no obvious = concensus.=20 Everything good you do , FreeBSD is running on my Pi3 since days without = switching it off as something like a "UART-gateway =E2=80=9E A good replacement could be to take a look @ Rockchip-gadgets, I will = provide support for one more device the next days(I hope at least, = lol).. but a better way is to say(like Ian): I will never support it (and then support it nevertheless:-) , We have to win some time .. if writing emails the whole day we forget to = code;-) Ha Ha=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks for reading! > bob prohaska >=20 >=20 entirely on my part Regards Klaus=20