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Date:      Tue, 8 Jan 2013 00:29:05 +0100
From:      Willem Jan Withagen <wjw@digiware.nl>
To:        Barney Cordoba <barney_cordoba@yahoo.com>
Cc:        Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, "freebsd-net@freebsd.org" <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>, Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org>, David Christensen <davidch@freebsd.org>, "linimon@freebsd.org" <linimon@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: kern/174851: [bxe] [patch] UDP checksum offload is wrong in bxe driver
Message-ID:  <FD1A7E18-1801-49F4-9DB7-28639F7F7747@digiware.nl>
In-Reply-To: <1357594876.61921.YahooMailClassic@web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References:  <1357594876.61921.YahooMailClassic@web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

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Op 7 jan. 2013 om 22:41 heeft Barney Cordoba <barney_cordoba@yahoo.com> het v=
olgende geschreven:

>=20
>=20
> --- On Mon, 1/7/13, Willem Jan Withagen <wjw@digiware.nl> wrote:
>=20
>> From: Willem Jan Withagen <wjw@digiware.nl>
>> Subject: Re: kern/174851: [bxe] [patch] UDP checksum offload is wrong in b=
xe driver
>> To: "Barney Cordoba" <barney_cordoba@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "Garrett Cooper" <yanegomi@gmail.com>, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, "Adri=
an Chadd" <adrian@freebsd.org>, "David Christensen" <davidch@freebsd.org>, l=
inimon@freebsd.org
>> Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 3:20 AM
>> On 2013-01-05 16:17, Barney Cordoba
>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Willem Jan Withagen <wjw@digiware.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> From: Willem Jan Withagen <wjw@digiware.nl>
>>>> Subject: Re: kern/174851: [bxe] [patch] UDP
>> checksum offload is wrong in bxe driver
>>>> To: "Barney Cordoba" <barney_cordoba@yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "Garrett Cooper" <yanegomi@gmail.com>,
>> freebsd-net@freebsd.org,
>> "Adrian Chadd" <adrian@freebsd.org>,
>> "David Christensen" <davidch@freebsd.org>,
>> linimon@freebsd.org
>>>> Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM
>>>> On 2013-01-01 0:04, Barney Cordoba
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> The statement above "assumes" that there is a
>> benefit.
>>>> voIP packets=20
>>>>> are short, so the benefit of offloading is
>> reduced.
>>>> There is some
>>>>> delay added by the hardware, and there are cpu
>> cycles
>>>> used in managing
>>>>> the offload code. So those operations not only
>> muddy
>>>> the code,
>>>>> but they may not be faster than simply doing
>> the
>>>> checksum on a much, much
>>>>> faster cpu.
>>>>=20
>>>> Forgoing all the discussions on performance and
>> possible
>>>> penalties in
>>>> drivers.....
>>>>=20
>>>> I think there is a large set of UDP streams (and
>> growing)
>>>> that do use
>>>> larger packets.
>>>>=20
>>>> The video streaming we did used a size of
>> header(14)+7*188,
>>>> which is the
>>>> max number of MPEG packet to fit into anything with
>> an MTU
>>>> < 1500.
>>>>=20
>>>> Receiving those on small embedded devices which can
>> do HW
>>>> check-summing
>>>> is very beneficial there.
>>>> On the large servers we would generate up to 5Gbit
>> of
>>>> outgoing streams.
>>>> I'm sure that offloading UDP checks would be an
>> advantage as
>>>> well.
>>>> (They did run mainly Linux, but FreeBSD would also
>> work)
>>>>=20
>>>> Unfortunately most of the infrastructure has been
>> taken
>>>> down, so it is
>>>> no longer possible to verify any of the
>> assumptions.
>>>>=20
>>>> --WjW
>>>=20
>>> If you haven't benchmarked it, then you're just
>> guessing. That's my point.
>>>=20
>>> Its like SMP in freeBSD 4. People bought big, honking
>> machines and the
>>> big expensive machines were slower than a single core
>> system at less than
>>> half the price. Just because something sounds better
>> doesn't mean that it is better.
>>=20
>> I completely agree....
>>=20
>> Dutch proverb goes:
>>     "To measure is to know"
>> Which was the subtitle of my graduation report, and my
>> professional
>> motto when working as a systems-architect....
>>=20
>> That's why it is sad that the system is no longer up and
>> running,
>> because a 0-order check would be no more that 1 ifconfig
>> would have made
>> a difference.
>>=20
>> But that is all water under the bridge.
>>=20
>> --WjW
>=20
> You can't really benchmark on a live network; you need a control. It's
> easy enough to generate controlled UDP streams. And of course every NIC
> would be a new deal. I'm sure that UDP offload is a checklist feature and
> not something that the intels and broadcoms of the world do a lot of=20
> performance testing for.

We did have a 10gb test environment, as lab.
That was what i ment when i said, too bad IT is no longer up and running.
ATM i can't even get to the hardware.
>=20


But you are right, UDP has always been the stepchild of the industry.

I've seen some real bad router UDP  implementations while testing consumer r=
outers.

And don't get me started on fragmented UDP, that is like running the lottery=
.

--WjW=



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