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Date:      Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:24:34 -0500
From:      Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com>
To:        "Mike Meyer" <mwm-dated-1014402603.cd6cb2@mired.org>
Cc:        chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Sierchio <kudzu@tenebras.com>
Subject:   Re: Natural stone tables
Message-ID:  <02021722243401.01477@proxy.pt.com>
In-Reply-To: <15471.63147.91742.306408@guru.mired.org>
References:  <20020217114119.HKOG24881.mailhost.det.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> <3C6FF419.7020900@potentialtech.com> <15471.63147.91742.306408@guru.mired.org>

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On Sunday 17 February 2002 13:30, Mike Meyer wrote:
> Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com> types:
> > Mike Meyer wrote:
> > > What's needed is spam reduction technology. TMDA could deal with this
> > > in a way that was painless for subscribers and nearly painless for
> > > non-subscribers. Now that I've installed it, the only spam I get is
> > > from the freebsd lists. But - who do we talk to about getting it done?
> >
> > Isn't this like mandating that the entire population of the US wear
> > bullet-proof vests intead of arresting the people who are shooting?
>
> You may have misunderstood me. I'm not advocating that everyone
> install TMDA. I'm advocating that TMDA be installed at freebsd.org,
> and used to filter mail to the lists.

I can see that.  I meant to ask earlier and got rushed, but is there anyone
who, in an official capacity, makes complaints to ISPs, etc concerning this
sort of thing?
I occasionally complain to the ISPs about it, but I'm not speaking on behalf
of FreeBSD.  I think someone stating, "On behalf of the FreeBSD community
and the maintainers of the FreeBSD mailing list, I am filing an official complaint."
would have a little more weight than just someone who subscribes to a
mailing list.

> If you're arguing that spam reduction software is inferior to
> arresting the spammers, I won't argue. The problem is that we're a
> long way from being able to arrest spammers, and the spam reduction
> software is here now. There's no reason we can't use what's available
> while waiting for something better to become possible.

I can agree, mostly.
The only part that I disagree with is the waiting.  We (as a community) should
be _doing_ something active about this.  So far, everything I see seems to be
directed at getting better systems to detect and reject spam mail.
Someone should be lobbying the government to make some laws that can be
used against these people.  I know a few states have started to do some things,
and that's good, but there's more that needs done.
Oh well, just ranting, I guess.  It's just frustrating that people can be such
a$$holes.
I had an idea for an autoresponder that would detect spam and tear apart the
headers to determine who to complain to, as well as log it so trends (ISPs that
are continually harboring spammers) could be detected and harsher action
taken.  There are lots of tools out there now that do a subset of this job, but
nothing that I know of that does all of it.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technology technical services
http://www.potentialtech.com

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