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Date:      Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:37:38 +1030
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc:        perhaps@yes.no, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: blocksize on devfs entries (and related)
Message-ID:  <19971215183738.35448@lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <199712150658.XAA26680@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 06:58:53AM %2B0000
References:  <19971215073048.57829@lemis.com> <199712150658.XAA26680@usr09.primenet.com>

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On Mon, Dec 15, 1997 at 06:58:53AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>>> When you think about it, it is fairly seldom an average user need to
>>> display multiple languages in the same document.
>>
>> It's fairly seldom that an average user will need to run more than one
>> program at a time, so what's all this fuss about multitasking
>> operating systems?
>>
>> I often need to display multiple languages at once.  In European
>> countries, such as Norway, they may need to display English, Swedish
>> and Norwegian in a single document.  Sure, you can represent all of
>> those with ISO 8859-1, but think about the Japanese, who have four
>> alphabets anyway, and the Singaporeans, who have four national
>> languages, each potentially with its own character set.  In those
>> countries the requirement is very frequent.
>
> The Japanese can represent 21 languages.  There is Unicode round-trip
> capability for JIS 208 + JIS 212.
>
> What is missing is the ability to seperate a bilingual Chinese and
> Japanese document, such that a Japanese does not have to sully his
> eyes with Chinese pretending to be Japanese.

I don't think I've ever seen a Japanese document without Kanji.  I
suppose it's possible, but it's not common.  On the other hands, I
have seen Japanese texts *only* in Kanji.  What do the Japanese here
say?  Does Terry's statement make practical sense?

> I think there is a valid need for the ability to multinationalize; the
> use of translation consoles and linguistic scholarship are two of the
> examples where this would be needed (but neither have the proposed
> alternatives provided code pages for "Linear B"...).
>
> But multinationalization is the exception, not the rule,

I would guess that outside the US it's the rule.  In that connection,
a joke I heard in India earlier this year:

What do you call somebody who speaks four languages? -- quadrilingual.

What do you call somebody who speaks three languages? -- trilingual.

What do you call somebody who speaks two languages? -- bilingual.

What do you call somebody who speaks only one language -- American.

> and the ability to do the work is cumbersome, but adequately
> provided by the ability to produce Compound Documents.

Certainly the American approach that it's the "exception" doesn't make
things easier.

> I think this fuss is political.  I think it will go away when the
> first company prodices something which works.

I'm not sure which fuss you're talking about, but then, I came in
after things had been going a while.  Certainly I'd expect people to
be happier when they have something which works.  And I'd lay a bet
that the winning solution will come from Europe or Asia.

> People, in general, do not give a damn about the underlying
> technology; they care about whether the underlying technilogy works
> to provide them with what they see in the forground, and _how_ it
> does this is a "don't care" state.

To wit Microsoft.

Greg




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