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Date:      Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:47:47 +0930
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To:        Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>, Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc:        Randy Philipp <cphilipp@pop500.gsfc.nasa.gov>, Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeroen van den Boom <jeroen@ctxnl.com>
Subject:   Re: Neomagic chipset - is it a hardware problem ?
Message-ID:  <19980805164747.I6348@freebie.lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808050702.IAA12582@awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Wed, Aug 05, 1998 at 08:02:33AM %2B0100
References:  <199808041424.HAA00456@antipodes.cdrom.com> <199808050702.IAA12582@awfulhak.org>

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On Wednesday,  5 August 1998 at  8:02:33 +0100, Brian Somers wrote:
> [Jeroen van den Boom from CTX cc'd - this may interest you!]
> [Greg cc'd - there's a question/request near the end... :-)]
>>> I've found out more about this flickering problem.... it only occurs
>>> when the laptop is physically warm - the warmer, the more flickering.
>>> If the machine sleeps for ~15 minutes, it'll wake up with a perfect
>>> picture and that picture will start to deteriorate with the building
>>> heat.  If I switch the display off for 15 minutes it makes no
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> This is all  under load.  If the machine is idle it lasts a lot
>>> longer (the fan is more effective I guess....)
>>>
>>> Has anyone else seen this problem ?  I'm pretty much convinced that
>>> it's a hardware problem now, so I'll probably return the machine
>>> (second time) nearer the end of the week.
>>
>> I've seen similar symptoms on a Toshiba using the C&T 65555.  The part
>> would misbehave so badly that the X server would crash.
>>
>> Windows worked OK on it though; my hypothesis was just that the X
>> driver wasn't doing whatever power management stuff the Windows driver
>> was, and so the chip was overheating.  I could be way off on that
>> though; I know nothing about the C&T architecture.
>
> It looks like you're at least partially correct Mike.  I've done some
> more tests with heating up, cooling down, restarting X, restarting
> FreeBSD, suspend & resume and LCD off & on....
>
> It seems that the screen corruption is due to a combination of the X
> server initialisation (*not* doing something it should) and the heat
> of the machine.  If I start X and let the machine heat up, or start
> X when the machine is already hot, I get the flickering.
>
> Once it's flickering, the display can be made crystal clear again by
> either suspending 'till the machine cools down (as I said before) or
> by simply switching the LCD off and on (there's a small switch for
> detecting when the lid is down that switches the LCD off by default
> and can be configured to make the laptop ``sleep'').  If I ``sleep
> 'till cool'', the problem re-occurs as the machine heats up again.

OK.  We've established that the problem relates to heat, at least in
part to heat generated by the system/display.  That doesn't happen
with Microsoft, if I understand correctly.  That makes it difficult to
escape the conclusion that something in your setup is not working
correctly.

> I can only guess that the sleep/resume is being caught by the power
> management stuff and X is re-initialising (wrongly) the display
> whereas the LCD off/on event is completely transparent and the laptop
> firmware knows how to make the screen work when hot..... once this
> `tweak' has happened, the display is fine forever more - up until it
> goes into text mode and back into graphics mode (ala X server).

I'm not convinced that this is the problem.  Presumably, under
Microsoft you can run the thing for hours (or until the "system"
crashes) without this problem occurring.

> This is *very* peculiar, but I think it's now looking more like a
> software thing.  I'll continue to test things.... I'm now running
> KDE 1.0 (window manager) and am using a screensaver - maybe this is
> relevant. I *do* wish NeoMagic would just publish the damn specs :-(

Well, I'd say it's an interaction between hardware and software.

> The other ``weird'' thing is that nobody else seems to have reported
> this problem, although I guess there aren't that many that have gone
> to the trouble of manually merging the initialisation code, and even
> fewer (if any) that have a CTX Cybernote.  Greg, as you've got a
> similar setup (although I doubt your machine is a CTX Cybernote), can
> you try doing a ``make world'' and see if you get similar behaviour,
> making sure that you *haven't* let the laptops LCD initialise itself
> (X should be the last thing to have set up the display from text
> mode) ?  It would be much appreciated.

Well, I don't have a NeoMagic chipset.  I've just been passing this
information around for people who do.  I'll gladly do a make world (if
this damn server would give me access), but I don't think it would do
much.

What I *do* think could be useful would be to extract the video
registers under Microsoft and compare them to what gets written in
there by X, if you have a Microsoft partition left on the laptop.  If
you don't have anything suitable, I can check what I have here.

Greg
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