Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:27:39 +0100 From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au>, Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> Cc: gek <gekk0@usa.net>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list Message-ID: <19980827202739.48782@nothing-going-on.org> In-Reply-To: <19980827193150.57832@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 07:31:51PM %2B1000 References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com> <19980827193150.57832@welearn.com.au>
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On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 07:31:51PM +1000, Sue Blake wrote:
> The reasons given recently have included that freebsd-questions is too
> much mail for most home-user newbies to cope with, most of which is
> "noise" to us in that it's too hard to understand, can't be used and is
> not relevant.
Subscription to -questions is not necessary to post there (Sue, I know you
know this, I'm just pointing it out for those that don't).
Sure, it's preferred (well, I prefer it anyway) if people do, because I
think there's a good chance to learn a lot by reading -questions, even
if you don't realise it at the time. I know I did.
> Also, there are people who want to have the chance to
> give tips to others, even though they don't know much.
freebsd-tips@example.com, mdoderated by someone, who posts 1 tip a day,
including an indicator in the subject line as to the user level the tip
is aimed at.
I can host it (if I did, it would be freebsd-tips@ngo.org.uk), but I
haven't got the time to moderate it or help promote it (write charters,
web pages and the like).
Do I hear any volunteers to do this?
> And for whatever reason, there is still a perception that the purpose
> of freebsd-questions is not to help newbies.
I'd like to see that change. In a sense, it's not to help newbies. It's
to help *anyone* who's got a FreeBSD problem, their status, newbie or
otherwise, is irrelevant (and, as this list shows, you can have FreeBSD
newbies who are expert in other Unices).
> We haven't found ways to change any of these things from our end within
> the existing system, nor have our needs and inhibitions been
> acknowledged as real.
Speaking for myself (as the rest of this post is) I can acknowledge your
needs and inhibitions (that's a generic 'your' there). But I can't help
you get other them.
If people (to pick an example) think that some of the answers on -questions
are too cryptic, then take the time to offer more detailed advice when
you can. This frequently happens anyway -- a particular question might
get a one line response;
It's in passwd(5), RTFM
and a slightly longer
This is because '.' is a valid character in a username, so you can
use ':' instead. You can't put ':' in usernames. The manual page for
the password file explains this ("man 5 passwd")
and a three page explanation from me :-)
> But when newbies are the only ones without a convenient way to *give*
> help, then I suppose that deprivation makes it relevant.
I disagree with you a lot here. Newbies most emphatically *do* have a
convenient way to give help. If it took you a long time to puzzle out
something from the available documentation, take the time to contact
whoever wrote the documentation with suggested changes, to try and make
it easier for people in the future.
This is a *fundamental* way newbies can help the FreeBSD project. You've
done it yourself (my tutorial is definitely easier to use since I acted
on your comments, I've had people mail me to say so).
N
--
Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache
Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need
Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft?
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