Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:28:10 -0700 From: Studded <Studded@gorean.org> To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> Cc: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Towards a more contrib'ified system (Was: cvsup and file permissions) Message-ID: <362EC26A.F5B171C8@gorean.org> References: <199810220250.TAA15310@usr01.primenet.com>
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Terry Lambert wrote:
>
> > > Regardless, it would be nice to have a way to tell cvsup not to sync
> > > permissions.
> >
> > That feature's on my to-do list. I think I might actually get some
> > time to work on CVSup again in the not-to-distant future.
> >
> > Meanwhile, try changing the umask as I suggested in my other mail.
> > I'm pretty sure that will work.
>
> Oh, oh, let me vote for "implied vendor branch" again, then,
> so that you can do local branches and checkouts and merges
> relative to a steadily advancing "vendor branch" CVSup'ed from
> "the vendor".
>
> It would be *too cool* if someone were to cause sendmail, ISC BIND,
> and other CVS maintained projects from other vendors to show up in
> FreeBSD as a constantly updated vendor branch.
Actually the mini-hornet's nest that I stirred up today by suggesting
that we upgrade cvs to take care of bugs reminded me that this is
something that's been on my list for a long time. On one hand the fact
that freebsd is a tightly integrated system is one of its strengths. On
the other hand that integration limits flexibility and reduces the ease
of upgrading non-project components.
I think that elf-ifying is a major step forward on this line. The next
two steps are things that can happen in tandem. Namely rooting as much
gcc dependence out of the system as humanly possible, then calling in an
exorcist for the rest. :) It would be nice to be able to build the
system with whatever compiler the user wants to. Along with that, there
should be an ongoing process of contrib'ifying all of the 3rd party
sources with an eye towards carefully documenting the freebsd'isms that
we've built into them.
Following that process, it would be nice if we could look seriously
into providing desirable freebsd-specific behaviour via some sort of
wrapper process, and/or a mechanism like the ports system could be
developed to archive the needed patches and combine them with the
contribified sources. In this way the technically demanding user can
more easily see and decide on said changes, and dependencies can be
viewed more easily.
This would greatly increase the flexibility of the system, and ease the
introduction of new versions of third party sources because people who
are interested in that particular item could more easily test the new
versions. We should also keep in mind that some people might want to use
different components for things like mail, etc. Making the make system
more frobbable should be part of the goal. Both along the lines of
making things more easily replacable (or easier to substitute entirely)
and making things that the user doesn't need easier to not build.
Please note that I DO NOT want to move to a linux-like system where the
"latest and greatest" bits are thrown together with no thought towards
integration. I envision -Current as close to or on the bleeding edge as
people want to keep it and -Stable a step or two back, with tried and
true bits filtering down as they do now. Our integration is a major part
of our strength.
Finally a major strength of this kind of system is that it more easily
takes advantage of the cross-platform solutions (and other expertise)
alreadly in place on the development teams of the third party apps we
already use. I don't think I need to elaborate on this point.
I hope that this suggestion is taken for what it is, and moreover I
hope that the topics I'm proposing are seriously considered. And before
anyone asks, yes, I am willing to help with the process. It would be
nice if someone could come up with a document like the "How to make a
port" part of the handbook for contrib'ifying as a place to start. Also,
a pointer to references for the bmake system would be very helpful. Over
time it's becoming more clear to me, but I'd rather not repeat mistakes
of the past or waste people's time with foolish mistakes of my own.
With an eye toward the future,
Doug
--
*** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network ***
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