Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:17:57 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au> To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com> Cc: Chuck Robey <chuckr@mat.net>, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.05.9812181049020.20932-100000@bragg> In-Reply-To: <199812172228.PAA03922@mt.sri.com>
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On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > The only languages and tools that should be part of the base FreeBSD > > > distribution, IMHO, are those required to build the system. > > > > This kind of attitude, make things as minimal and difficult as possible, > > is why Unix has such a reputation as the hardest OS on the block. > > I disagree. Most early releases of unix (the ones that were the most > difficult to use) had *LOTS* of languages on them. The SystemIII > version I have at home has about 7 of them that came with it, and more > if you consider 'AWK', 'SH', and such to be languages. While I don't expect to see it done soon (I'm not quite good enough yet to work on this myself, although I'm getting there), I wouldn't complain at all if sendmail, uucp, fortran, maybe even gcc, etc. [1] were ripped from the base system and turned into additional ports. Arguing that this makes it hard for newbies is moot - Win95 does the same thing with its install (lets you customize what gets installed), and presumably a sysinstall in this mythical FreeBSD would have very clear options to install the packages either at install-time, or later on, and explain what each of them does and who needs them. Packages for which there is not significant usae (e.g. uucp), or which a large enough number of people want to rip out and replace (e.g. sendmail) should not be made mandatory (providing of course they can be maintained properly wherever they end up - making something into a port under the current framework wouldn't probably work well, because of the need to either create a mass of patches, or frequently update the distfile). One could even create a bunch of "stubs" for things like sendmail, etc, which report back "This package is not installed. To use sendmail, type "cd /usr/ports/mail/sendmail && make install". Really, this could be so easy that any idiot could do it. [1] It's conceivable that this would lead to more inter-operability between the alternative components (e.g. smtp agent, etc, in the long run, by localizing the system and encouraging people not to make gratuitous changes elsewhere. Of course, there would continue to be a single (or small group of) supported options (gcc 2.7.2.1/egcs 1.1.1, sendmail/qmail, perhaps), but it leaves the door open for people to add their own module, make it compatible, and maintain it. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
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