Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Studded <Studded@gorean.org> To: Tim Vanderhoek <vanderh@ecf.utoronto.ca> Cc: ML Duke <mlduke@concentric.net>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9906181204390.16101-100000@dt054n86.san.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <19990612200606.B70348@mad>
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On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Tim Vanderhoek wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:56:51PM -0600, ML Duke wrote:
> >
> > > FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to
> > > questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies.
> >
> > I've been on this list, off and on, for some time. You keep saying the
> > above, even harping on it, it seems, no disrespect intended. Why?
>
> It's on the contract she signed about a year ago. ;-)
>
> When this list was created, most of the, um, dare I call them, Old
> Guard, were loudly opposed to its creation. Its purpose was far from
> clear to them, and its backers were never quite able to succinctly
> summarize its purpose in four words (or less). Nevertheless,
> freebsd-newbies was ultimately given life as a place where people, not
> just new to FreeBSD, but intimidated by the whole UNIX aura hovering
> inside most FreeBSD mailing-lists, could meet. However, there was
> a caveat: the new mailing list must not damage support structures
> already in place for user-help. The potential for this was deemed
> to be very great by Old Guard of the Support Structures. The cells
> behind this potential are explained semi-regularly courtesy Sue, and I
> expect a follow-up to your question re-listing them. :)
As a member of the vocal majority opposed to the creation of this
list (whether I am "Old Guard" or not is subject to interpretation) I felt
I should respond. Tim made some excellent points, and I agree with almost
all of what he said. However, I'd like to explain some reasoning behind
the initial opposition.
I've had years of experience both providing help to users on and
off the internet, and teaching people how to do so. My objection to the
formation of this list was twofold. First, I did not think that it was
necessary or desirable to "segregate" new users to their own space.
Rather, it would be more beneficial to the project as a whole to help
educate experienced users on how to be more helpful (and approachable) on
the -questions list. As users become more experienced or profficient they
tend to naturally migrate to other lists, like -current or -hackers. We
need a friendly, supportive list for all users to be able to ask questions
on, and a very important principle in customer support is that customers
should have ONE point of entri into the system. On the positive side, Sue
and others have done a good job in helping with the gentrification of
-questions, but there is still a ways to go.
My other objection was based on the fact that if you create a list
for new users, it is inevitable that they will ask questions there. The
only options are to answer the questions (see above) or costantly harp on
the very users we're trying to be supportive of about following "the
rules." Neither outcome is desirable. Related to this objection is the
fact that I didn't see any purpose for it. I'm still not sure I do, but
people like it, so what the heck.
We now conclude the "blast from the past" portion of our program,
and return you to the regularly scheduled squabbling and back-biting. :)
Doug
--
*** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network ***
On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only
nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter
what it does.
-- Will Rogers
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