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Date:      Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:42:14 +1000 (EST)
From:      Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
To:        Peter Wemm <peter@wemm.org>
Cc:        mjacob@feral.com, Jim Bryant <kc5vdj@yahoo.com>, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: oddity with dump(8) or sa(4) in -current 
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0107152130000.50566-100000@besplex.bde.org>
In-Reply-To: <20010714230005.14DC6380B@overcee.netplex.com.au>

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On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Peter Wemm wrote:

> Matthew Jacob wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Bruce Evans wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Matthew Jacob wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Jim Bryant wrote:
> > > > > On a side note, what happened to the "raw" device nodes [/dev/*rsa*]? I
>     'm guessing that the lack of "raw" nodes doesn't make a diff,
> > > > > as /dev/*sa* are all character-mode devices.
> > > > 
> > > > No, all devices are block devices now. Linux has no raw, FreeBSD has no
> > > > cooked. Feh.
> > > 
> > > No.  No devices are block devices now (or yesterday; block devices
> > > went away in 4.0).  Linux has no character disk devices; FreeBSD has
> > > no block disk devices.  Feh.  Tapes are a little different from disks.
> > 
> > Really? I'll have to tell the ANSI SCSI committee!

I understated a little.  Tapes are more than a little different from disks.

> He means *buffered* devices (aka block, using bdevsw, and the buffer cache)
> went away.  Raw devices (aka character, using cdevsw, but going direct to

I really did mean block devices...

> the device) are what we kept.  Raw devices are accessible depending on the
> backing device.. eg: must be block sized transfers/seeks/etc for things
> like tapes/disks/etc, but can be any for things like frame buffers.
> Buffered (block, cached) can be written on any size/alignment and can be
> seeked for disks.  We have not had the gross B_TAPE flag for some time that
> was used to stop the buffer cache getting too creative with the tape
> strategy routines (ie: doing random IO).
> 
> Unix stat(2) calls raw devices "character" and buffered devices "block",
> even though raw devices can be both block or byte addressable and
> buffered devices enabled character/byte IO.  :-) Hence the tangled up
> terminology.

There are only character-special and block-special devices for stat(2) and
in POSIX.  I intentionally didn't "raw" or "cooked" because those terms
are fuzzy.  "block" is not fuzzy; it is just sort of backwards as it applied
to disks (the block devices were byte addressable but the non-block devices
are only block addressable).

Bruce


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