Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:47:02 -0400 From: Garance A Drosihn <drosih@rpi.edu> To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Daniel Eischen <eischen@pcnet1.pcnet.com>, "M. Warner Losh" <imp@bsdimp.com>, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing old binaries Message-ID: <p05111727b9c7f2510134@[128.113.24.47]> In-Reply-To: <20021008021507.GR57557@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20021008010539.GE57557@wantadilla.lemis.com> <Pine.GSO.4.10.10210072112020.8423-100000@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <20021008012532.GF57557@wantadilla.lemis.com> <p05111724b9c7e8a1bc14@[128.113.24.47]> <20021008015928.GO57557@wantadilla.lemis.com> <p05111725b9c7ecc4b42a@[128.113.24.47]> <20021008021507.GR57557@wantadilla.lemis.com>
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At 11:45 AM +0930 10/8/02, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >On Monday, 7 October 2002, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > I bought the PC, freebsd did not. Maybe it is convenient for me to >> have a file there. Maybe I did it by mistake. Maybe it's a core >> file that landed there and I forgot to move it. Maybe you'll help >> me by removing it. Maybe you'll piss the hell out of me by >> destroying some important file that was never created by freebsd in >> the first place. Maybe I did an "install -C" because that was >> appropriate for *me*, in *my* situation. Maybe I installed some >> port with "PREFIX=/". What do you care? What is GAINED by the >> freebsd project deciding that it has the right to go around >> destroying files on people's hard disks? > >I thought I had explained that a while back. Consistency and >repeatability. Note that this is an argument to remove obsolete files. It is not an argument for destroying /usr/bin/garance-file. It is not an argument to destroy files which ARE current, but did not get changed due to an 'install -C'. It is not an argument to outlaw 'install -C', because *you* think that no one should need it. > > I understand what is gained by moving known-obsolete files out of >> the way, but that does not justify going wild with "rm" commands >> just because freebsd "wants to own" /usr/bin and friends. > >I would think that a NOCLEAN_OLD or some such option would probably >be to accommodate you. If that is the default, sure. But if that was the default, then I don't see it doing much good. I would rather pick some solution that we could make the default, *and* not have to worry about it destroying some important file on some developer/user. I do understand the problem that we're hoping to solve here, and it seems to me we should pick a solution that developers don't have to "protect themselves from". Please note that I'm not arguing this to protect some special quirk on my own personal systems. I am arguing it because I really think it is the wrong thing to do. Installers (IMO) just should not be removing files where they have no idea what the file is or how it got there. My own personal systems could live fine with the "just remove it" option. As I say, I'm already generating pristine /usr/include directories every month, so it is not like I personally need any special support. But someday that "just remove it" tactic will destroy some file that will greatly inconvenience some developer, and when that happens the developer is not going to be in the mood to hear some freebsd person say "But why did you create that file there?", as if each user has to ask permission before creating files on hardware that they own. I remain perplexed as to why anyone would be fixated on the idea of destroying files on machines that the freebsd project does not own. Why must we pick the most user-hostile way to implement this? Well, I think I've reworded my concerns as many ways as I can think of, so I'll call it a night on this topic. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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