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Date:      Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:49:53 +0200
From:      Ed Schouten <ed@80386.nl>
To:        Jeremie Le Hen <jeremie@le-hen.org>
Cc:        Kostik Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: concurrent sysctl implementation
Message-ID:  <20090724134953.GW68469@hoeg.nl>
In-Reply-To: <20090724130928.GJ54986@felucia.tataz.chchile.org>
References:  <a0806f900905050107u4cbf0624oc83aafa54ae651f0@mail.gmail.com> <d9f479c10905050239u5d6d8304y1f63e41eabee8624@mail.gmail.com> <20090508214117.GY58540@hoeg.nl> <20090509113459.GD56667@e.0x20.net> <20090509121313.GA58540@hoeg.nl> <20090724073451.GH54986@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> <20090724081842.GF55190@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <20090724115404.GI54986@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> <20090724115649.GV68469@hoeg.nl> <20090724130928.GJ54986@felucia.tataz.chchile.org>

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* Jeremie Le Hen <jeremie@le-hen.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 01:56:49PM +0200, Ed Schouten wrote:
> > * Jeremie Le Hen <jeremie@le-hen.org> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:18:42AM +0300, Kostik Belousov wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 09:34:51AM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote:
> > > > > Hi Ed,
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Sorry for the late reply.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 02:13:13PM +0200, Ed Schouten wrote:
> > > > > > We probably could. I think I discussed this with Robert Watson =
some time
> > > > > > ago and we could use things like ELF hints. But still, that doe=
sn't
> > > > > > prevent us from reaching this limitation later on.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Can you elaborate a little?  Are you talking about elf-hints.h?
> > > > > I don't see where we can get randomness from it.
> > > >=20
> > > > The thing is called ELF auxillary information vector. It is used to
> > > > supply some useful information for interpreter from the kernel,
> > > > see include/machine/elf.h for AT_* entries.
> > >=20
> > > Ah ok, so the idea is to generate a new hint, for instance AT_RANDOM,
> > > generated at link time, that will be used to fill the canary at exec(=
2)
> > > time?
> >=20
> > Very short answer: yes!
>=20
> Ok thanks.  But this would make stack protection useless for local
> attacks on suid binaries that are world-readable since the attacker
> could read the ELF aux vector and compute the canary. =20

Wait wait wait. It seems you were only partially right (and Kostik
corrected you):

We could add AT_RANDOM, but this value will be filled in by the kernel
when starting the process. This means the random value is not stored in
the binary.

--=20
 Ed Schouten <ed@80386.nl>
 WWW: http://80386.nl/

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