Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:43:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@picnic.mat.net> To: Studded <Studded@gorean.org> Cc: davids@webmaster.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/pci pcisupport.c Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9905151629330.401-100000@picnic.mat.net> In-Reply-To: <373DAD88.4AC73869@gorean.org>
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On Sat, 15 May 1999, Studded wrote: > What you're ignoring is that even with an OS project there ARE people who > use the stuff. If there weren't a use for what you're doing, it wouldn't > have much value except as a mental exercise. If that's really what you're > after, more power to you, but honestly it's not very helpful to the > project. And what you're ignoring is that the developers write the stuff, and they AREN'T paid by you. They write it because they want to write it, and if you try to force them to do what you want, they will just go away. The *vast* majority of users who can't code need extremely large amounts of help to realize that 99% of their new ideas are either already implemented or proven worthless. The folks who can code do not want to spend 99% of their time telling this to people. I'm not saying they won't help at all; I'm saying that there must be some limits, so that the more outrageous suggestions don't waste everyone's time. Before I became completely convinced of this, I spent 2 monts once with one very stubborn new user who was convinced it would be of incredible use to catalog all possible patterns of bits. He kept pestering me to spend all my time writing an OS that would recognize all patterns as programs, and couldn't understand why not all patterns would be useful. Lord knows I spent endless hours trying to make that guy understand. > As for your other point about good ideas rarely coming from people who > can't code, you are the poster child for why programmers should never get > to decide on their own what they're going to work on. Right there, there's your problem. In FreeBSD, programmers DO make that decision. You have the option of banging your head on the wall and screaming about it, or learning to code yourself. You DON'T have the option of forcing the developers to do what you want. If you can't handle that simple piece of reality, then the discussion is moot. > > Yes, but you're not running a develop-driven open source free coding > > project. > > As a matter of fact, yes we are. All of our coding work is volunteer. Oh, yeah? And do you force your developers to code what the non-develoers want? How do you force them? Developers here do what they want to do. > > Your viewpoint is different. There is no one person in your > > position, to hand down fiats. > > Again, on DALnet David IS the person who issues the fiats. :) But there is > really no way for you to have known that, and it isn't part of the central > argument so don't sweat that. Ahh, then you admit you hand down fiats? The point was that fiats don't exist like that in FreeBSD. Again, that's reality. > Quite frankly, if you are ever tempted to respond with "shut up if you > can't code it yourself," just don't. You're not helping anyone, and in fact > in all likelihood you're probably making things worse. Funny thing here is, all the rude responses like "shut up if you can't code it yourself," have originated from you and David, not anyone from FreeBSD. The responses from FreeBSD have been polite ones (meaning the same thing, albeit) but you'd rather it looked otherwise, so as to bolster your arguments? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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