Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 08:23:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Walter Cramer <wfc@mintsol.com> To: "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de> Cc: Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net>, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> Subject: Re: ZFS... Message-ID: <20190506080804.Y87441@mulder.mintsol.com> In-Reply-To: <41FA461B-40AE-4D34-B280-214B5C5868B5@punkt.de> References: <30506b3d-64fb-b327-94ae-d9da522f3a48@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2gf3AZr1-QOX_6yYQoqE-H%2B8MjOWc=eK1tcwt5M3dCzdw@mail.gmail.com> <56833732-2945-4BD3-95A6-7AF55AB87674@sorbs.net> <3d0f6436-f3d7-6fee-ed81-a24d44223f2f@netfence.it> <17B373DA-4AFC-4D25-B776-0D0DED98B320@sorbs.net> <70fac2fe3f23f85dd442d93ffea368e1@ultra-secure.de> <70C87D93-D1F9-458E-9723-19F9777E6F12@sorbs.net> <CAGMYy3tYqvrKgk2c==WTwrH03uTN1xQifPRNxXccMsRE1spaRA@mail.gmail.com> <5ED8BADE-7B2C-4B73-93BC-70739911C5E3@sorbs.net> <d0118f7e-7cfc-8bf1-308c-823bce088039@denninger.net> <2e4941bf-999a-7f16-f4fe-1a520f2187c0@sorbs.net> <20190430102024.E84286@mulder.mintsol.com> <41FA461B-40AE-4D34-B280-214B5C5868B5@punkt.de>
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On Mon, 6 May 2019, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > Hi! > >> Am 30.04.2019 um 18:07 schrieb Walter Cramer <wfc@mintsol.com>: >> With even a 1Gbit ethernet connection to your main system, savvy use of= =20 >> (say) rsync (net/rsync in Ports), and the sort of "know your data /=20 >> divide & conquer" tactics that Karl mentions, you should be able to=20 >> complete initial backups (on both backup servers) in <1 month. After=20 >> that - rsync can generally do incremental backups far, far faster. > > ZFS can do incremental snapshots and send/receive much faster than rsync= =20 > on the file level. And e.g. FreeNAS comes with all the bells and=20 > whistles already in place - just a matter of point and click to=20 > replicate one set of datasets on one server to another one =E2=80=A6 > True. But I was making a brief suggestion to Michelle - who does not seem= =20 to be a trusting fan of ZFS - hoping that she might actually implement it,= =20 or something similar. Or at least an already-tediously-long mailing list= =20 thread would end. Rsync is good enough for her situation, and would let=20 her use UFS on her off-site backup servers, if she preferred that. > > *Local* replication is a piece of cake today, if you have the hardware. > > Kind regards, > Patrick > --=20 > punkt.de GmbH=09=09=09Internet - Dienstleistungen - Beratung > Kaiserallee 13a=09=09=09Tel.: 0721 9109-0 Fax: -100 > 76133 Karlsruhe=09=09=09info@punkt.de=09http://punkt.de > AG Mannheim 108285=09=09Gf: Juergen Egeling From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon May 6 14:14:26 2019 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A87158C14B for <freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Mon, 6 May 2019 14:14:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) Received: from hades.sorbs.net (hades.sorbs.net [72.12.213.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDCE71AE1 for <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; Mon, 6 May 2019 14:14:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [10.10.0.230] (gate.mhix.org [203.206.128.220]) by hades.sorbs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.29.0 64bit (built Jul 9 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0PR3007BZ6UXYH20@hades.sorbs.net> for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 06 May 2019 07:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ZFS... From: Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16A404) In-reply-to: <20190506080804.Y87441@mulder.mintsol.com> Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 00:14:09 +1000 Cc: "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de>, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <08E46EBF-154F-4670-B411-482DCE6F395D@sorbs.net> References: <30506b3d-64fb-b327-94ae-d9da522f3a48@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2gf3AZr1-QOX_6yYQoqE-H+8MjOWc=eK1tcwt5M3dCzdw@mail.gmail.com> <56833732-2945-4BD3-95A6-7AF55AB87674@sorbs.net> <3d0f6436-f3d7-6fee-ed81-a24d44223f2f@netfence.it> <17B373DA-4AFC-4D25-B776-0D0DED98B320@sorbs.net> <70fac2fe3f23f85dd442d93ffea368e1@ultra-secure.de> <70C87D93-D1F9-458E-9723-19F9777E6F12@sorbs.net> <CAGMYy3tYqvrKgk2c==WTwrH03uTN1xQifPRNxXccMsRE1spaRA@mail.gmail.com> <5ED8BADE-7B2C-4B73-93BC-70739911C5E3@sorbs.net> <d0118f7e-7cfc-8bf1-308c-823bce088039@denninger.net> <2e4941bf-999a-7f16-f4fe-1a520f2187c0@sorbs.net> <20190430102024.E84286@mulder.mintsol.com> <41FA461B-40AE-4D34-B280-214B5C5868B5@punkt.de> <20190506080804.Y87441@mulder.mintsol.com> To: Walter Cramer <wfc@mintsol.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CEDCE71AE1 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of michelle@sorbs.net designates 72.12.213.40 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=michelle@sorbs.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.84 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:hades.sorbs.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sorbs.net]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[battlestar.sorbs.net,anaconda.sorbs.net,ninja.sorbs.net,catapilla.sorbs.net,scorpion.sorbs.net,desperado.sorbs.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.705,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.213.12.72.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; SUBJ_ALL_CAPS(0.45)[6]; IP_SCORE(-0.39)[ip: (-0.98), ipnet: 72.12.192.0/19(-0.50), asn: 11114(-0.39), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11114, ipnet:72.12.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code <freebsd-stable.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-stable>, <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable>, <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 14:14:26 -0000 Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ Sent from my iPad > On 06 May 2019, at 22:23, Walter Cramer <wfc@mintsol.com> wrote: >=20 >> On Mon, 6 May 2019, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: >>=20 >> Hi! >>=20 >>> Am 30.04.2019 um 18:07 schrieb Walter Cramer <wfc@mintsol.com>: >=20 >>> With even a 1Gbit ethernet connection to your main system, savvy use of (= say) rsync (net/rsync in Ports), and the sort of "know your data / divide & c= onquer" tactics that Karl mentions, you should be able to complete initial b= ackups (on both backup servers) in <1 month. After that - rsync can general= ly do incremental backups far, far faster. >>=20 >> ZFS can do incremental snapshots and send/receive much faster than rsync o= n the file level. And e.g. FreeNAS comes with all the bells and whistles alr= eady in place - just a matter of point and click to replicate one set of dat= asets on one server to another one =E2=80=A6 >>=20 > True. But I was making a brief suggestion to Michelle - who does not seem= to be a trusting fan of ZFS - hoping that she might actually implement it, I implemented it for 8 years. It=E2=80=99s great on enterprise hardware in enterprise dcs (except when it i= sn=E2=80=99t, but that=E2=80=99s a rare occurrence..as I have found).. but i= t is (in my experience) an absolute f***ing disaster waiting to happen on an= y consumer hardware... how many laptops do you know with more than one driv= e? =20 My issue here (and not really what the blog is about) FreeBSD is defaulting t= o it. FreeBSD used to be targeted at enterprise and devs (which is where I f= ound it)... however the last few years have been a big push into the consume= r (compete with Linux) market.. so you have an OS that concerns itself with t= he desktop and upgrade after upgrade after upgrade (not just patching securi= ty issues, but upgrades as well.. just like windows and OSX)... I get it.. t= he money is in the keeping of the user base.. but then you install a file sy= stem which is dangerous on a single disk by default... dangerous because it=E2= =80=99s trusted and =E2=80=9Ccan=E2=80=99t fail=E2=80=9D .. until it goes ti= tsup.com and then the entire drive is lost and all the data on it.. it=E2=80= =99s the double standard... advocate you need ECC ram, multiple vdevs etc, t= hen single drive it.. sorry.. which one is it? Gaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhhh! </rant over>=20 Back to installing windows 7 (yes really!) and the zfs file recovery tool so= meone made... (yes really!) > or something similar. Or at least an already-tediously-long mailing list t= hread would end. Rsync is good enough for her situation, and would let her u= se UFS on her off-site backup servers, if she preferred that. Upon reflection as most data on the drive is write once read lots, yes I sho= uld have. This machine is mostly used as a large media server, media is put on, it is c= ataloged and moved around to logical places, then it never changes until it=E2= =80=99s deleted. I made the mistake of moving stuff onto it to reshuffle the main data server= when it died... I have no backups of some critical data that=E2=80=99s why I= =E2=80=99m p**sed.. it=E2=80=99s not FreeBSD or ZFSs fault, it=E2=80=99s my= own stupidity for trusting ZFS would be good for a couple of weeks whilst I= got everything organized... Michelle >>=20 >> *Local* replication is a piece of cake today, if you have the hardware. >>=20 >> Kind regards, >> Patrick >> --=20 >> punkt.de GmbH Internet - Dienstleistungen - Beratung >> Kaiserallee 13a Tel.: 0721 9109-0 Fax: -100 >> 76133 Karlsruhe info@punkt.de http://punkt.de >> AG Mannheim 108285 Gf: Juergen Egeling > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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