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Date:      Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:46:05 -0700
From:      Chris <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com>
To:        Grzegorz Junka <list1@gjunka.com>
Cc:        <freebsd-x11@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Ars Technica article
Message-ID:  <db98a93f17214ff9adaad6a6f19da84e@udns.ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <6a54cca8-e918-b676-4f83-1630e03b6b03@gjunka.com>

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On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:49:52 +0000 Grzegorz Junka list1@gjunka=2Ecom said

> > OK I've bit my tongue as long as I can on this=2E=2E=2E
> > How is importing yet more Linux code into FreeBSD a better thing? Or ho=
w
> > is it *fixing* anything regarding FreeBSD=2E For clarity; I don't dislike
> > Linux=2E I just prefer to use (Free)BSD=2E I'm frankly alarmed with the=20
> > apparent
> > volume that Linux code is entering the FreeBSD code base=2E I noticed=20
> > much of
> > the UEFI bits are also converted Linux bits=2E I suppose for a quick need=
ed
> > stop-gap solution it might be reasonable=2E But it appears that a=20
> > tremendous
> > amount of time, and effort has gone into all this, and given the=20
> > previously
> > mentioned lack of man-power=2E It seems unlikely that any of this will be
> > replaced with a FreeBSD equivalent=2E I'm not blowing smoke here=2E I=20
> > earmarked
> > some time that I wouldn't be taking contracts so that I could invest so=
me
> > time on FreeBSD concerning "nits" I had that I thought could improve=20
> > things
> > a bit=2E I looked into taking the time to make it nearly/fully POSIX=20
> > complaint=2E
> > Browsing the code=2E It was clear I wouldn't stand a chance unless I=20
> > started
> > at ~9=2Ex where it starts to go sideways in fairly rapid succession=2E So I
> > decided to look elsewhere=2E I've had some nits with the Graphics dept=2E s=
o
> > I thought I'd look to see where I could best spend my efforts=2E Then=20
> > the new
> > Xorg landed=2E Well that's going a *completely* different direction than =
it
> > was, and I don't think I want to participate in that new direction=2E
> > I've finally landed on working on bolstering sc/syscons in an effort to
> > provide graphics mode switching and detection to it=2E
> >
>=20
> Thankfully, Linux code can't enter FreeBSD base because of different=20
> licensing=2E
>=20
> I hope you don't advocate for re-implementing drivers for FreeBSD? What=
=20
> about NVidia drivers that aren't even distributed with source code?=20
> Surely, they provide binary packages for FreeBSD, but without support=20
> for Vulkan for example=2E Without any documentation of the hardware ports=
=20
> how this could be even achieved?
>=20
> Besides, I am happy when I see a vendor or developer supports Linux,=20
> apart from the usual Windows or Mac, not even mentioning FreeBSD=2E Many=20
> don't even differentiate beyond Linux, listing support for FreeBSD under=
=20
> Linux and other distro sections!
>=20
> I think we need to be pragmatic about it=2E Neither AMD nor NVidia will=20
> provide FreeBSD drivers and FreeBSD can't implement those drivers,=20
> either for objective reasons (man power) or because it's not feasible=20
> (NVidia)=2E If we can reuse existing drivers that the manufacturers are=20
> releasing and updating frequently, and only focus on the compatibility=20
> layer, then why not?
Agreed=2E The challenges are many=2E How? How have we managed so far? Yes=2E
We've been (seemingly) forced to import video blobs for some (G|A)PUs=2E But
what of the others? What of the French driver project; Nouveau? How have
they managed? Granted it *too* is Linux based=2E But they got there *somehow*=
=2E
Would it be a worthy venture to start a project like that that either
imports && recobbles that project into "native" code? Or? I've been at this
for over 50yrs, and I've amassed more hardware than you could imagine=2E Need
to get FreeBSD on a Mac SE dsdd? NP=2E a PDP? Oh wait, that was done l-o-n-g
ago=2E But I've got several models available -- just in case=2E
I'm serious=2E I'm willing to participate in whatever capacity I can=2E But
IMHO importing Linux stuff isn't really "keeping ahead of the curve"=2E

>=20
> --GrzegorzJ
>=20
>=20
--Chris

--
UNIX is like Ice Cream=2E It comes in several flavors=2E
But in the end, it's still Ice Cream=2E





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