Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:33:11 -0700 (PDT) From: L Goodwin <xrayv19@yahoo.com> To: Jeffrey Goldberg <jeffrey@goldmark.org> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proper list server? (was Re: Automatic means for spinning down disks available?) Message-ID: <839069.18074.qm@web58112.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <7D7D3A68-EC8D-4010-96E1-449396A7DA61@goldmark.org>
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Thanks, Jeff and others.
Ok, I'll use "Reply to All". FYI, I only use this Yahoo account for situations where I don't want to get spammed to death. I started using UNIX, email and the Internet in 1989, but for the last 15 years I've been stuck with Windows (not counting hosted Web servers) -- guess I'm getting a little "soft".
I'm having a hard time trying to implement a non-Microsoft OS for the first time in (literally) decades, and freely admit my ignorance. My prior experiences installing UNIX were with commercial versions (mainly AIX) using checklists prepared by folks who knew what to install.
I live in the heart of Microsoft territory. No offense to Microsoft, but I'd like to see a little more competition around here. What I'm seeing is a trend towards Microsoft servers (even Web servers!). Other than (hosted) Web servers running FreeBSD/Apache, I work mainly with workstations. I'd like to gain some modest expertise in the non-Microsoft server arena.
I appreciate any and all help in this endeavor.
Jeffrey Goldberg <jeffrey@goldmark.org> wrote: On Apr 11, 2007, at 2:14 PM, L Goodwin wrote:
> Well, Jonathan, since you asked, here are the things I've found
> cumbersome about freebsd-questions, some/all of which may be due to
> my own ignorance:
It's not so much your ignorance (well ultimately it is), but that you
are using a webmail system (Yahoo!) to manage your mail.
Quite simply, if you are going to be getting lots of mail (as happens
when you subscribe to a mailing list or two) and communicating with
people on discussion lists, you should use a proper mail client.
I'm sure that there will be ways to doing the things you want with
Yahoo!, but on the whole mailing lists were designed to work with
real email clients.
Anyway, here are comments on the original.
>
> 1) I get all email posted to freebsd-questions in my inbox
> (actually, some end up in "bulk mail" folder). That's a lot of mail
> to wade through. I'm trying to get a system up and running so I can
> move on to the next task.
> I suppose I could set up some email filtering rules to limit what
> comes in.
Sorting of incoming mail is essential if you belong to several
mailing lists. I'm sure that Yahoo will have some way of doing this
so that mail that matches a particular pattern will go into a
designated mail folder. As others have pointed out, the best pattern
to use is based on the List-Id header, which for this lists looks like
List-Id: User questions
I have a sorting rule that puts all of my freebsd.org lists (I
subscribe to several) in a specific folder. Because I'm sorting mail
with something called sieve (almost certainly not what Yahoo is
doing) my rule looks like
elsif header :contains ["List-Id"] "freebsd.org" {
fileinto "INBOX.LISTS.Comp.BSD"; stop;
}
But don't worry, you won't have to edit such rules by hand. Yahoo
will have a nice web interface for you.
> 2) To reply to an email, I have to copy/paste "freebsd-
> questions@freebsd.org" into the "To" field. If I forget to do this,
> my reply gets send to the sender only.
> See? I almost forgot to do it for this reply. :-}
Most mailers (and I assume Yahoo! as well) make a distinction between
"Reply" and "Reply to all". It might be called something else on
Yahoo! but look for something that seems to mean the same thing.
For some discussion lists, things are configured so that the Reply-To
header in mail to the list will make a simple "Reply" to go just to
the list. There are fierce debates among list managers about whether
that is a good thing or a force for evil. I will not step into it
here, except to note that the people who configured this discussion
list made a conscious and informed choice about how to configure the
list. (Mailman allows lists to be set up either way.)
> One feature I like about (some) list servers is the ability to send
> a private message to another member. This comes in handy when one
> person is helping troubleshoot a problem, and you don't need
> everybody on the list to get involved.
That is what a simple "Reply" will do given how this list is set up.
Use Reply to All to send the response to the list as well.
I don't mean to present an argument from authority, but you are
clearly new to email discussion lists. The people who made the
choices about the configuration of this list have much more
experience about what works and what doesn't work. I managed my
first email list in 1986, and over the decades have formed some very
strong opinions. It's good for you to query things and point out
stuff that doesn't seem to work right. It wouldn't be the first time
that the experts are wrong. But do keep in mind that most everything
you encounter has been configured or designed the way it is for a
reason. And so when you run into something that seems strange or
annoying to you, the question to ask is not "why can't we do it
right?" but "why are things set up as they are?"
Once you get used to the way of doing things on proper email
discussion lists, you'll never want to go back to anything like
Yahoo! Groups.
Cheers,
-j
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