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Date:      Fri, 13 Jul 2018 07:51:44 -0600
From:      Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>
To:        cem@freebsd.org, Dirk-Willem van Gulik <dirkx@webweaving.org>
Cc:        "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Limits to seeding /dev/random | random(4)
Message-ID:  <1531489904.66719.43.camel@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAG6CVpW=gXK-a7RAmDm=xBb3WP=bK3sLxOTBm3r0Y=ES4KzWPg@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <3A988D26-7B08-4301-8176-B0ED8A559420@webweaving.org> <1531317515.66719.20.camel@freebsd.org> <20180712165751.1e5b8e24@gumby.homeunix.com> <7C42CD28-078F-4AF6-90F2-5E951F8386D5@webweaving.org> <CAG6CVpX1DnB7KDigG=wMPROM6vvdw0LB005u6d3c29Dbp7NhTw@mail.gmail.com> <55685C1F-4711-40C7-8EB4-2930BF8C9884@webweaving.org> <CAG6CVpW=gXK-a7RAmDm=xBb3WP=bK3sLxOTBm3r0Y=ES4KzWPg@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 11:40 -0700, Conrad Meyer wrote:
> Identical results are very troubling.  Maybe your readonly
> filesystems
> contain a static "entropy" file that is being fed in every boot (with
> identical contents)?  If so, you definitely want to remove that
> during
> image generation.  That, in tandem with few other sources of entropy,
> could explain identical results.

I have been reporting for years that certain kinds of embedded systems
lead to zero entropy available at boot, including the fact that the
kernel's attempt to harvest entropy from things such as device attach
timings and so forth are, in some situations, completely ineffective
and yield numbers that are identical from one boot to the next. I even
posted logs of it happening years ago. Still, people just find the
whole idea of this sort of reproducibility so gut-level counter-
intuitive that they dismiss and deny it.

It happens. Embedded systems are a different world, and if entropy is
important, sometimes we have to go out of our way to provide some.

-- Ian



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