Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 11:09:03 -0400 From: Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org> To: "Constantine A. Murenin" <cnst++@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Removing "CMOS clock set to UTC" question Message-ID: <CAPyFy2AqNQxNFwhL=XbMsp%2BN8vmJNTnuANj9HGqkW518qUUh1A@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAPKkNb5g7=qQ_x89=V=WceXnUREOYU_45ND4gTQdWRbPVFfhxw@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAPyFy2Bo8Mn=Y9g3ePwMN=YOivgTryGpHC4=qzi%2BnJX3c2h68A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPKkNb5g7=qQ_x89=V=WceXnUREOYU_45ND4gTQdWRbPVFfhxw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 14:14, Constantine A. Murenin <cnst++@freebsd.org> wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 11:23, Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > > Our installer asks (via tzsetup): > > > > > Is this machine's CMOS clock set to UTC? If it is set to local time, > > > or you don't know, please choose NO here! > > > > I've heard many reports of new users being confused by this question > > when installing FreeBSD for the first time. I don't think it provides > > much value; it is a minor convenience for dual-booting with Windows > > but imposes a cost on everyone installing FreeBSD. It is trivial to > > configure the system to use local time in the system's real-time clock > > by creating /etc/wall_cmos_clock. Other operating systems do not ask, > > they just default to local time (Windows) or UTC (everyone else). > > > > I've proposed removing the question from bsdinstall in > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D45569. > > Perhaps the confusion arises from the implied default being "NO" > instead of a "YES"? There are several sources of confusion I think --Mark Delany's response did a good job of highlighting them. > In a way, the proposed patch actually both changes the default and > removes the question. Which may end up being more confusing unless > expressly advertised as such. The default behaviour in FreeBSD (ignoring tzsetup or bsdinstall) is to store UTC in the RTC. Creating /etc/wall_cmos_clock configures the system to use local time instead. tzsetup certainly implies that answering NO is the default choice (by recommending that choice if you don't know), which creates the file and uses local time. > If the intention is to simply change the implied default, maybe that's > exactly what should be done instead? E.g., move the "don't know" > category into a "YES" suggestion. Making it "If you don't know, choose YES" is probably better, but the question is still troublesome. As another reply in this thread pointed out, the user may not know what time is in the RTC during installation, which is what is being asked but is not actually what the installer needs to know.
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