Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:18 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Message-ID: <199602270942.KAA04562@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960227094743.2001C-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> from "Narvi" at Feb 27, 96 10:03:36 am
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> > > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> writes: > > > > > > Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly > > > Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you > > > Christoph> may argue it is customizable). > > > > > > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > > > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > > > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! > > > > > > Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree > > > Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. > > > > > > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, > > > 'fraid not. > > > > Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app > > it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, > > Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection, > > selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block. > > Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V ? They aren't actually Windows default - some > programs use them and some don't. Smalltalk? I think I saw somewhere > smalltalk for FreeBSD. Text selection? It is like that until someone Just wanted to express that Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V is the de facto standard for text copy,cut, paste (first introduced under Smalltalk and on the Mac, now adopted by nearly any common WP program and in GUI builders, extends for any item, not just text) But that's really not the issue. > pulls himself together and writes another, alternative widget - it's > actually much easier with X/TclTk than doing it under Windows (try it out > if you don't believe me). And it won't be slow any more if you change > some of it into C... That's the point, there is no mandatory style guide. Everything is ad libitum or left to someone to implement and that's a mess. Actually I didn't want to end up in a Tcl/Tk vs. Win32 API flame war or something. And I agree with Jordan that it is currently the best you can get in the unix world for 0$. I just wanted to point out that Win32 is a quasi must to have under FreeBSD, and that soon. > > > > > > Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) > > > > Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an alphanumerical world and never > > saw other GUIs before. You would also declare Motif style GUI > > as sufficiently nice, do you? Actually it is sufficient to do the > > job but that's it. > > > > OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar > > conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, > > same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE > > (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk > > would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications > > in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. > > You would want to have this under Unix. > > > > Not convinced: > > 1) Win32 is a API, *not a language or a program development > tool*. I didn't say that Win32 is a language. As little as TCL is a language would Richard Stallman say :-) But there are powerful IDEs available for Win32. And it would be great to have only one API for every platform. I would even say use Win32 and a Win95 PC for bootstraping FreeBSD to a better GUI and better apps. > 2) Visual programming and microsoft, visual programming and > Win32, visual programming and windows are not the same things > - (as Windows95 and multimedia are not the same things) you > can do as well (at least) with other tools. Did I let appear the impression that I mixed up any of these? > > > > -provoke mode off :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Sean Kelly > > > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > > > > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet > > > of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. > > > > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de
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