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Date:      Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:31:11 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
To:        rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG (Robert Watson)
Cc:        tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca, dillon@earth.backplane.com (Matt Dillon), des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), arch@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: List of things to move from main tree to ports (was Re:
Message-ID:  <200102170031.RAA17052@usr05.primenet.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1010216161003.59690E-100000@fledge.watson.org> from "Robert Watson" at Feb 16, 2001 04:13:23 PM

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> > Security is always a tradeoff between usability and safety. 
> 
> I keep hearing this concept bandied about like it was pure truth, and
> frankly, I don't think it is.  Some of aspects of the security problem
> reduce usability, but others don't.  It improves security to correctly
> implement string handling in network daemons.  But it also improves
> correctness, consistency and stability, and those are important components
> of having a usable system.  So I think that the above statement is really
> a common misconception.  I'd dig up some dead Greeks, but it seems like a
> lot of trouble simply to state:
> 
> Security can cause reduced usability.
> Security can cause increased usability.

For me, removing the R* commands, telnet, ftp, and UUCP reduce
usability.  UUCP over TCP is a wonderful way to exchange email
with a dial on demand server without a static IP address, without
having to implement SMTP AUTH and ATRN all over the place, and
since there are no public ATRN implementations at this time, it
is one of the few options that's easy to get right.

Yeah, if you're a moron when it comes to configuring systems,
then removing the r* commands by default will increase security,
*if* you have one of your users already using the client versions
of them on a system subject to compromise.  If you don't, it
won't matter, since it's just another way to get to a login prompt
that's going to refuse you entry.

If your problem with these things is string handling, then fix the
string handling; there's a lot of code we could dike out as being
"insecure", but which we leave lying around.

Frankly, I can't see an initial install turning any box without a
PC keyboard and VGA monitor attached to it, so you can later enable
non-console access, into a useless inert lump, as being something
positive for anyone by keyboard and monitor salesmen.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.


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