Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:32:17 -0700 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: "Slim" <jallen@aviating.com>, "Kevin Golding" <kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk> Cc: "Dan Look" <dan@electriccheese.com>, <ITServices@cableinet.co.uk>, "Conrad Sabatier" <conrads@home.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <joel2a@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Microsoft bashers Message-ID: <001601c12e55$0d2f8340$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <3B891D9A.13E42204@aviating.com>
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I agree that there isn't anyting to be gained by bashing someone who contributed to the buildup of the computer buisiness. However, there is definitely something to be gained by bashing someone who is attempting to subvert the entire computer industry for their own ends. There was a line that Microsoft crossed some time ago when they ceased _contributing_ to the industry, and started _manipulating_ it for their own benefit. At that time they became fair game for bashing. In Microsoft's case it is an instance of absolute power corrupting absolutely. I fault them because many, many other people throught history have been in the same position and have NOT taken advantage of it. Bill Gates and Microsoft could have used their preeminiment position to nurture and assist everyone else, and we all would have benefited far more. Would they have gotten as big as they are and made as many billions of dollars as they did? Probably not - but they still would have been the largest software ISV in the world and still been in control of Windows. Instead they have chosen to have the attitude that only their opinion matters and that everyone else is fucked in the head. You forget that Microsoft has been ruled an illegal monopoly. This is not Grandma's Cookies we are talking about here. This is an organization that is out of control and is deliberately breaking the law. They could have chosen to self-divest, many other companies in the same position did. Even AT&T when ruled an illegal monopoly chosed to follow the law instead of fighting it. But Bill is going to fight _everyone_ who disagrees with his point of view that Microsoft is the greatest thing since sliced bread, to the bitter end, and no matter what it does to his company. Eventually, the courts are going to get tired of this idiot with a head of solid bone who isn't willing to follow the law and they are going to react and Microsoft is going to be far worse off than if they had gracefully accepted the ruling and worked things out. That's reality, no the rosy mythology that you have constructed. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Slim >Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 9:03 AM >To: Kevin Golding >Cc: Dan Look; ITServices@cableinet.co.uk; Conrad Sabatier; >freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; joel2a@yahoo.com >Subject: Re: Microsoft bashers > > >There's no point, nothing to be gained, by bashing anybody who >contributed to the buildup of the computer business to where it is >today. > >In 1970, there were no computers available for personal use, except on >an extremely limited scale, guys getting used micro computers being >upgraded to main frames mostly. The relatively small part of the >population who had ever seen a computer in real life had no dream of >ever actually owning one themselves. I certainly did not. Then the >Intel chips started appearing. We bought these small one board devices >with 1K of memory and no I/O other than a hex keyboard and 8 segment >tubes, and wrote programs in 1s and 0s, because there were no >assemblers. Oh, you could write in the chip's command set and assemble >it by hand if you wanted, or just eliminate the middle step. This was >in the mid-70's. BYTE Magazine made it's appearance about this time. > >I bought an Apple IIp in about 1976 or 77, with 16K of memory, cassette >tape I/O and a RF converter to use a TV set for a screen. It came with >a BASIC interpreter built in, and a game on cassette called "Little >Brickout". That was all the software there was. I think it cost about >$1,500 at a time when you could buy a new Volvo for about $4,500! A few >years later, I was able to buy a newly introduced 5.25 floppy, for about >$1400, IIRC. No hard drives at this point. There were enthusiasts all >over the country, spending their evenings in their workshops and back >bedrooms tinkering, trying to figure out how to make something useful >out of these little devices. This fellow in Albuquerque was selling >micro-processors in kit form which could be built into a real working >computer, the Altair, and another outfit was selling Imsai's, with >lights and switches covering the front panel for I/O. Apples were the >slickest, and came ready to use right out of the box... but for what? > >There were no I/O devices except cassette tapes, and paper tape, so the >first order of business was to write some code to load a paper tape >loader. You flipped switches to input that program byte by byte until >you had it all in memory, then hit the "Run" switch. If you had miss >flipped one switch, it crashed and you had to do it all over again. The >hero at the computer society back then was a guy who came up with a >paper tape loader that only took 28 bytes down from about 60. Much less >switch flipping! The first hackers! With an Apple, you eliminated all >that, BTW. > >I still have around here somewhere the patent application which told how >to take an ordinary IBM Selectric typewriter and rig it up for use as a >printer. You guys would fall down laughing to see what a kluge this >was, but there was almost nothing else, and Selectrics were plentiful, >if not cheap. I think they weighed over a hundred pounds, too. > >Some of the more active creative types gradually figured out how to make >some money from their avocation, supplying parts and supplies and >machines and know-how to the rest of us. Some hung on and eventually >made good money, others came and went. There was an amazing mix of >people involved, barely teens to BHOF's, all brought together by a >shared enthusiasm to innovate, learn, create and make something of these >wonderful new devices. This was an evolutionary process, maybe even a >series of closely spaced mini revolutionary processes happening >asynchronously and very disorderly. > >There wasn't much practical use for these things in the early days. No >database managers, no spread sheets, no accounting, no Wizard and >Princess, no nothing. The first software packages were dreadful, >exceeded in their complexity only by their uselessness. The term "user >friendly" was unheard of, and unpracticed. Documentation was pathetic, >setting the standard which persists to this day. > >Things started to really get in gear when the guy came up with >VisiCalc. This was a real revolution, the first mass software to make a >real impact. Things were different after Visicalc than they were >before... much different. Now you could actually DO something useful >with your computer without being a white coated computerwizard. >Accountants, real estate investors, stock brokers, gas station owners, >etc. started to acquire Apple II's like crazy. A few stories in the >Wall Street Journal and such like places, and pretty soon there began to >be rumors that IBM was coming up with a micro-processor. The term >"Personal Computer" or PC was first introduced after a vigorous debate >about what to call these things, since "micro-processor" seemed so >clumsy and unmarketable. > >While all this was going on, and fermenting, there were these two >snot-nosed punks, one of whom had written a BASIC interpreter, but they >didn't have a machine to try it on. They wrote it solely from the chip >manual, the Intel 8080 chip, I believe it was. They called this guy at >Altair in Albuquerque and asked if they could come down and try it. >They could, he said, they did and it ran the first time..... no >debugging required. Those two were Bill Gates and Paul Allen. > >I still laugh every time I think of this Senior VP at IBM who made the >decision whether to exercise IBM's option to acquire all rights to the >MS-DOS operating system for $100,000, and who decided that $100,000 was >an awful lot of money to be paying these teenagers! The Bill Buckner of >computing!!! We ought to be g**d**** glad he didn't pay. > >The purpose of all this is not so much to defend Gates and Allen, but >rather to make the point that there is no place, no call, for bashing of >anyone, especially by guys who have accomplished next to nothing in >advancing the state of computing. It is simply inappropriate, and >frankly seems to be used mostly to build up the basher's ego by >belittling the bashee. We have reached the point where we are by the >efforts, and intelligence, and creativity, and more than a few missteps, >of all of us, some more so than others. > >It's not nice, and it makes the basher look stupid to those of us with a >longer horizon. If there is any bashing that needs to be done, it would >be most appropriately done by the people who have accomplished the great >things, the Gate's, Allens, Jobs and Wozniaks, those software guys, the >guys who thought up, perfected and popularized the internet. If you are >not among them, maybe you ought to keep your mouth shut until you are. >Quitcherbitchin, and be glad these genius's have provided you with such >delightful devices to play with, and probably more than a few jobs >(employment, not Steve). > >Slim > >Kevin Golding wrote: >> >> In message <01082601582601.00417@wolverine.pandora.be>, Dan Look >> <dan@electriccheese.com> writes >> >The first GUI's were developed at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research >Centre) (or >> >so I've allways been told). And then first brought to public >attention by Apple >> >(mostly). >> > >> >I guess the early internet/arpanet ran mostly on Unix but I >beleive TCP/IP was >> >developed with cross platform compatability specifically in mind. >> > >> >And yes it's true, up untill around '95 MS had little or no >interest in the >> >'net. >> >> Not even then really, they wanted to go the AOL/Compuserve route and >> offer a proprietary network, it was only after MSN flopped that it >> became more of a true ISP. >> >> However it isn't completely outrageous to suggest that some of these >> things would be as big or popular. Whether we like it or not MS have >> actually done quite a bit for computer evangelism, and that's a good >> term for it. Think of Bill as one of those dodgy TV[1] evangelists, >> sure, it's good that he gets people seeing the appeal of things, it's >> just a shame he's too busy lining his pockets. >> >> Anyway, today's embrace and extend URI is.... >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/ce/tools/source/license.asp >> >> Kevin >> >> [1] as in Television okay! :-) >> >> >> On 25 Aug 01, at 15:03, Conrad Sabatier wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> > On 04-Aug-2001 joel2a@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > > Well I just have to say that if there wasn't Windows we would all be >> >> > > back the days of console prompt typing and there certainly >would not be >> >> > > as many people on the internet. >> >> > >> >> > Anyone who begins a post with a statement as absurdly >ridiculous as this >> >> > deserves only one of two things (or both): to be ignored or killfiled. >> >> > >> >> >> >> Joel, if history wasn't the way it is, it would be different. That does >> >> not preclude development of the internet nor something like >> >> Windows but different. And the internet started as Unix, IIRC. >> >> Until recently Bill Gates was on public record as saying that the >> >> internet was not going to be important ... even the devil can be >> >> wrong ;-)) And I do believe that GUIs were invented elsewhere and >> >> Microsoft copied and <gasp of disbelief> even purloined some of >> >> the code. Though I stand to be corrected about that. >> >> -- >> kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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