Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:38:29 +0100 From: "Anthony Atkielski" <anthony@atkielski.com> To: <absinthe@pobox.com>, <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: Java on FreeBSD) Message-ID: <010801c16607$8af99060$0a00000a@atkielski.com> References: <20011105141028.75556.qmail@web10402.mail.yahoo.com>
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Dylan writes: > Are you saying you don't want FreeBSD useable > by commercial applications? No. I'm saying that you should use the appropriate tool for the job. I don't believe in developing religious attachments to software. If you need Java, and FreeBSD doesn't support it, either you need to find an operating system that does, or you need to find someone who will write Java support for you under FreeBSD. Another option is to add Java support to FreeBSD yourself, and then give it away, or sell it. Make sure you pay for any necessary licenses, of course. > Java is a solid, multi-platform language under > a good license ... My understanding is that a Java license costs money, and that this is why FreeBSD does not include it. Additionally, it seems that the UNIX name (which is trademarked) can only be applied to systems that meet arbitrary standards set by The Open Group (owner of the trademark) for UNIX systems, and one of these standards is Java support--which is why FreeBSD cannot technically be called UNIX, even if it walks and talks just like UNIX. > Sun spent the money developing Java and it makes > sense that they're trying to protect it from being > forked irresponsibly ... Then buy Java from Sun, and help them to survive. Run it under Solaris, since that OS is probably designed to work best with Sun's implementation. > Sun's trying to do the right thing, and bring > in revenue at the same time. Well, you are half right, at least: Sun is trying to bring in revenue. Whether they are doing it the right way or not depends on how one looks at it. Odd that certain policies are "right" when practiced by certain vendors, and "wrong" when practiced by other vendors. I guess it depends on which vendor you worship. > I don't fault them at all. Neither do I, but I don't want to pay them any money, particularly for something that is of no use to me, like Java. And FreeBSD can't afford to pay them money, either--not if the OS is to remain free. > Between Java and StarOffice/OpenOffice I think > they've done a lot of good things towards making > open-source platforms viable. I don't think that either of these products really has any effect on open-source platforms. Are they both freeware? > Barely a blip on the radar? I think your radar > is on the fritz. Java is not a solution for > everything, but it fits most things well. I have yet to see any application written in Java that was not a nightmare to use. It sets new records for slowness and clumsiness. Worse yet, the motivation for using Java is selfish: It cuts development time, but increases the resources required for the end user, and slows the application down. So software gets out the door quicker (and the developer receives checks sooner), but the resulting software runs like a dog, and end users must pay for the extra time and hardware to run it. This is why I will not buy any application written in Java; why should _I_ pay to save the _developer's_ time and money? > According to most surveys (Gartner, IDC, etc) > report 80% of IT organizations polled are using > Java components of some kind... At least 80% of organizations are probably using MS-DOS in some form, too, but that doesn't make it a leading OS. > Whether you take their estimates for gospel or > not, they're projecting that Java will represent > 75 percent of new business application development > by next year. Uh-huh. So they'll be pushing all that Ada software right out the door, eh? > You're trying to compare Java with IIS? > Apples and oranges. I'm comparing proprietary with free. > You might not have noticed, but, the same group > that makes the Apache you love so much, also > makes a Java servlet engine called Tomcat. No, I haven't noticed, which says a lot, I think. > But anyways, it's clear to me that some people > would prefer to engage in religious debate than > getting things to work, "pure" OSS or not. I agree. So will you be leaving the church soon? > FreeBSD is a platform. It should be running anything > it can. It _does_ run everything it can. How could it be otherwise? > Your personal disagreements with Java are irrelevant > when compared to the demand and potential of it > running on FreeBSD. Right. Time will tell. In the meantime, I group Java with all those other hot new has-beens, like Ada, Pascal, WAP, bubble memory, BeOS, and quadraphonic sound. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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