Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:27:00 +1000 From: "Murray Taylor" <MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au> To: "Jim Thompson" <jim@netgate.com>, <gnn@freebsd.org> Cc: minibsd@ultradesic.com, freebsd-small@freebsd.org, mk@neon1.net Subject: RE: Embedded FreeBSD Presentation... Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F117CA31@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal>
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George, Jim et al, Have you looked at the miniBSD build system described below? =20 I just ran an 'embedded' system during the=20 2006 Melbourne Commonwealth Games to monitor the lighting system datanet that was Freebsd 4.11 based, handled SNMP trap monitoring, fping monitoring, SNMP fetch queries and SMS notifications. I had a DHCP server running on the main LAN, dhclient on the WAN port, sshd login and about 60-70 of the basic programs (vi, awk, more, grep, find, sh, csh, gsmsmsd... ) fully available to me. All managed within a couple of shell scripts and a cron job or two. Hardware: 300MHz 486, 32 Meg RM, and a 32 MEG CF flash disk. kernel was minimally downsized by removal of unneeded functions, and was loaded on the flash disk as kernel.gz, to be ungzipped=20 automagically during boot. All other programs had been rebuilt to use dynamic libraries rather than static linkages to reduce the binary sizes. CF space used =09boot partition: approx 22 Meg of 28Meg =09config data partition: approx 20 Kilobytes of 4 Meg NB Config data actually was all the shell scripts and my=20 .conf files. Done this way so that the config partition=20 could be mouunted R/W during shutdown to save all shell scripts and config data that may have been edited / updated since boot. Original minibsd Freebsd 4.7 -> 4.11 https://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html and derived works Freebsd 5.x http://www.ultradesic.com/index.php?section=3D86 Freebsd 6.x http://www.ultradesic.com/index.php?section=3D125 I didnt do the original work, I just use it, and it is a blast. Particularly useful is keeping a dnode mounted disk image of the CF on the development host. Dead easy to copy new programs to the vnode mount, unmount it, dd a new CF image, and run. Also by temporarily mounting the miniBSD boot partition as R/W, one can do a SCP copy of a file to the CF disk from the development host over the WAN .... Useful, you betcha! Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer Bytecraft Systems P: +61 3 8710 2555 F: +61 3 8710 2599 D: +61 3 9238 4275 E: mtaylor@bytecraft.com.au=20 -- "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." =20 Albert Einstein=20 --=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-small@freebsd.org=20 > [mailto:owner-freebsd-small@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jim Thompson > Sent: Monday, 15 May 2006 6:56 AM > To: gnn@freebsd.org > Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Embedded FreeBSD Presentation... >=20 >=20 > On May 14, 2006, at 5:45 AM, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: >=20 > > At Sun, 14 May 2006 09:16:48 +0200, > > Eduardo wrote: > >> Is this really possible:? Sorry for be a bit unoptimist,=20 > but in the=20 > >> embeded space the o.s.must follow some rules that freebsd=20 > (nor linux,=20 > >> *bsd, windows, etc..) can't: > >> > >> - size: The o.s. must be minimal. Freebsd kernel, now, is=20 > a bit huge. > >> - realtime: The o.s. must do some tasks at fixed times, this tasks=20 > >> can't wait for nothing. > >> > >> The size one can be fixed, but the realtime not. It needs a new=20 > >> scheleude, irq manager,...; so a great kernel rework. > > > > Perhaps you mis-understand the thrust of this drive, in that we are=20 > > not talking about turning FreeBSD into an RTOS, at least not in the=20 > > short term, but about making it more amenable to embedded. > > > > There is much to do but it will be a gradual process. Size and=20 > > configuration are the first things to address. > > > >> Also, you forget the PowerPC chips. They are in a lot of embedded=20 > >> devices and now freebsd has support for them (6.x). > > > > We did not forget them but amongst those who have shown interest in=20 > > this project ARM and MIPS are the clear leaders. If we find people=20 > > who wish to address the PowerPC chips as well, all the better. One=20 > > other important component in this work is focus. We cannot be all=20 > > things to all people, at least not at the outset, so two different=20 > > processors and two or three reference boards for each are where we=20 > > plan to start. >=20 > In the embedded world, most people who build their own "SOC"=20 > tend to use ARM7, ARM9 or MIPS cores. > For instance, Atheros and Broadcom both use a MIPS 4KC core in their =20 > WiFi parts. Realtek uses an LX50 core, which is "MIPS minus the =20 > patented instructions" (there is a port of GCC which won't=20 > issue these instructions). >=20 > TI uses ARM7 in OMAP, but that platform is probably "too=20 > small" for FreeBSD's resource requirements in the immediate=20 > future. (Read: lots of work to squeeze FreeBSD onto=20 > platforms using OMAP.) >=20 > Folks who are not ODMs of one of these companies tend to use PowerPC =20 > (either IBM's 440 or one of the Freescale parts) or Xscale. Intel =20 > did a real "number" on the market starting in 2003 (similar=20 > to what they did to the WiFi chip market with Centrino) and=20 > essentially drove suppliers of MIPS core parts (such as IDT)=20 > into a corner of the market. >=20 > That said, there are very few "commodity priced" PowerPC boards. >=20 > I think the most "bang for the buck" will be found porting=20 > FreeBSD to Xscale (especially the ixp42x parts) first,=20 > followed by PowerPC (because FreeBSD is already running on a=20 > (slightly different) PowerPC chipset), and then the various=20 > MIPS-based parts that support WiFi or the little=20 > switches-with-embedded-MIPS parts. >=20 > Jim > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > To unsubscribe, send any mail to=20 > "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > ***This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal.*** >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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