Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 06:29:25 -0400 From: Paul Ammann <pta1@fastmail.us> To: Allen <KoggyBSD@comcast.net>, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? Message-ID: <1336645765.27416.140661073679701.158F0D9D@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <201205091656.30733.KoggyBSD@comcast.net> References: <CAHMRaQf=M0ULOH=KnqzOXvczSM0Lb6apCoQkJegqyU3e8%2BgShA@mail.gmail.com> <4F9AEFD9.3050107@FreeBSD.org> <D5CE1C14-34D4-471D-88BC-30D69C54833F@mosaicarchive.com> <201205091656.30733.KoggyBSD@comcast.net>
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I read your post and thought I add my 2 cents: When did insecure operating systems become an international standard? Good security design takes time, and necessarily means limiting functionality. Good security testing takes even more time, especially if the product is any good. This means the less-secure product will be cheaper, sooner to market, and have more features. In the case of *BSD, the last two points apply. If we look at the late 1980s and early 1990s, there were more than a hundred competing firewall products. The few that "won" weren't the most secure firewalls; they were the ones that were easy to set up, easy to use, and didn't annoy users too much. Because buyers couldn't base their buying decision on the relative security merits, they based them on these other criteria. The IDS market evolved the same way, and before that the antivirus market. The few products that succeeded weren't the most secure, because buyers couln't tell the difference. I think people don't understand the economic liability. When you purchase an insecure operating system, who is most concerned about economic liability. Hint: it's not the company making the software. Consumers and companies spend additional money in antivirus software, firewalls, maybe an IDS, etc. This has been going on for so long, people don't seem to know any better. It's become a standard. Unfortunately software industry isn't like the any other industry. You don't see Microsoft or Apple doing a product recall, because of safety issues in their product. Instead, they release duct tape, er, patches to limit liability for their negligence or to limit damage to publicity. If you want to promote or educate people, as Michael Lucas says: *BSD needs books. If you wander into any bookstore, brick or virtual, you'll see books on Linux, Solaris, Macintosh, and even non-Unix-like operating systems. The BSD books are far between. We as a community need to address this if we're to expand our reach. On Wed, May 9, 2012, at 04:56 PM, Allen wrote: > Before I reply the proper way without an annoying top post like this one, > let > me just point out, that I'm only top posting to say I'm sorry for > replying to > an OLD message. Well, maybe not THAT old, but none the less, I just got > this > email because I just recently got Email going again. So if you see this > and > wonder why someone is still replying, it's because I hadn't seen it yet. > > On Saturday 28 April 2012 09:43:33 am Andrew Young wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > On 4/27/12 10:16 AM, Andy Young wrote: > > >> After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started > > >> using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a > > >> solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my > > >> research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. > > One of the reasons I wanted to reply to this message was simply because I > personally don't own a company, nor do I make any money on what I do with > Computers very often. So I thought it might be helpful if you had a sort > of "From the other side" view of things. So basically, don't take > everything > I say to be true, as it's my opinion, and not only that, it's JUST an > opinion. You should ALWAYS use what works best for YOU. No matter what > ANY > one of us might say, don't fix what isn't broken! I think that's one of > those > unwritten Unix laws somewhere :) > > So anyway, my experience with the world of Unix, Linux, and, of course, > BSD > Unix, started not long after I got my very first Computer. I'm fairly new > to > this world compared to some of the old timers who can actually remember > when > Vi didn't show you a whole screen of text. (I went to College with a guy > who'd been a Systems Coder for 25 years and was back in school to learn > all > this crap all over again lol. We became friends fast because I have an > interest in History, and he was one of those guys sitting at a 10,000 > dollar > Unix Workstation running a very nice version of BSD) > > Anyway, I got my first Computer in September of 1999. I know because > within > two weeks I'd signed up for a free account on a website that happened to > keep > the date you joined listed, so, I can actually say not only the year, but > the > month I started touching a Computer for my first time. It was a POS even > by > those standards; It came with Windows 95, which drove me nuts, but I knew > nothing about these things, and didn't know you had a choice at all. > > Within 6 months I'd accidentally destroyed that Computer, and bought my > very > first Computer paid for with my own money. An HP Pavilion, with 128 MBs > of > RAM, 43 GB HD, Windows 98 SE, and even an Nvidia Video Card! It had an > Internal CD-Writer, and Internal DVD-ROM Drive. I think it was 2,000 > dollars. > And another 1700 for the 17 inch Flat Screen CRT I bought with it. MAN > how > stuff has changed heh. > > Anyway, the reason I'm rambling on, other than the Morphine Xanax > Cocktail I > just got for my excruciating back pain, which makes me Happy, I wanted to > give you background info about me so I'm not some no one stranger. > > Anyway, before I'd even bought this Computer, I'd been on IRC a lot, and > I > kept talking to some guys calling themselves "Hackers" and this REALLY > grabbed my attention, because I learned through them, that a Computer can > do > WAY more than just what you tell it to do; It can do everything you want > it > to do, and if it doesn't do what you want, you can MAKE it do that. > > This is where I first heard about Linux. they ran Linux at the time, and > I > started reading about it. Remember, I'd only owned a Computer for a few > months at this point, so I was more than overwhelmed by trying to figure > out > Linux. > > I eventually bought a "Teach yourself Linux in 24 hours" book, and it > came > with a CD. I admit I was scared because I'd lost everything before, but > eventually, I tried it out. It was RIGHT around the time I was at Best > Buy, > and saw a "BSD PowerPak" which came with FreeBSD 4.0 on 4 CD-ROMS, and > the 6 > CD-ROM Toolkit, and "The Complete FreeBSD" by Grey Lehey. Third Edition. > It's > still one of my most Cherished books. > > The reason, was that while I was reading about Linux, one day, I saw an > article about someone who wrote DeCSS, and saw he perferred FreeBSD. So > then > I started looking up FreeBSD. So not only was I learning about Linux, but > now, I'm learning what FreeBSD is. I learned that FreeBSD, was one of > many > BSDs available, and that they are ALL based on, or came from, something > called Unix. > > I remember my best friend and I trying so hard to get a copy of a True > Unix. > We couldn't afford it, but after some research, I'd made up my mind that > FreeBSD, especially FreeBSD, had more rights to be called Unix than > anything > SCO was selling. > > I started out installing OpenLinux. From SCO. I like it but there was > something missing. So I moved to buying Mandrake Linux 7.1, and RedHat > for > Dummies. Well, Red Hat became something I hated, but Mandrake was nice. > Eventually I moved on to SUSE, which I LOVED, but I still wanted BSD. So > one > day I finally got it installed. This was when I finally learned that back > then, the main difference between Linux and FreeBSD, was that FreeBSD was > something you could set up and pretty much forget about. > > Years have now passed since this time. I'm currently sitting here in my > own > house now. I'm no longer 18 years old, and I'm no longer living at "home" > with Mommy either. My Wife, who knows more about Solaris than any person > I've ever met in person, and uses Vi (Which is why I Married Her, let's > be > Honest lol. The day She said She hated Gentoo, and Loved Vi, I said Marry > me!) and we now have about 12 Computers here. I have my Server, which, > happens to be that HP Pavilion I bought all those years ago. It's still > running! > > I've upgraded some Hardware, like adding RAM to make it up to 384 MBs of > RAM, > and another HD, for space, and I installed Slackware 12.0 on it. It's > fully > patched, and has almost a year of uptime right now. > > My Compaq, which recently stopped running BSD because I needed a test > Linux > machine, is now running OpenSUSE 12.1, as is this machine, which dual > boots > with Windows 7, and then my Laptop runs PC-BSD 9, which I LOVE, and then, > my > other machine runs FreeBSD 9. > > By the way, if PC-BSD keeps going at the rate it is currently, I can > almost > guarantee it will supercede Ubuntu. I'm that confidant about it. I > thought > Mac OS X was the only BSD that could manage to make things easy to use, > but > it still isn't right. But PC-BSD, which, is basically FreeBSD with some > custom apps, and aimed at the Desktop, does still allow you to use the > Ports, > and it's EASY. > > Anyway now that you know a little about me, and what I like, I'll try and > keep > this a little shorter: > > > >> As I learned > > >> more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many > > >> elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and > > >> am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server > > >> infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it > > >> before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, > > >> either in college or in over ten years as a software developer > > >> since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are > > >> so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least > > >> more mature solution. > > The reason is that, basically, there's a reason FreeBSD is known as the > unknown giant. I mean you saw it and wet yourself, and you'd been using > not > only a Unix like OS, but an Open Source one at that, and STILL had never > heard of it. I buy a lot of FreeBSD stuff, and I can count on one hand > the > number of times someone has said something about one of my FreeBSD > shirts. > It's just not that well known because FreeBSD Core people, tend to try > and > make it not only work, but be the best it can possibly be, which leaves > VERY > little time for the PR BS most Linux distros aim at. > > LOL for an example; Google ZFS Linux, and see if it even compares. RedHat > especially is turning into the new Microsoft these days; They have lots > of > Web Sites and pretty brochures about how their product is gonna be the > best > of the best "When it finally ships" but in reality, I want FreeBSD on MY > Servers. > > > >> What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on > > >> FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. > > I didn't get a chance to read every reply to this, but I'm glad, because > it's > going to let me give you an Honest answer: > > The BEST way you can spread the word about FreeBSD, is by USING IT! Use > it, > install it on your machines, and every time someone asks how you manage > so > much with so little hardware, THEN tell them. > > Oh, of course, there is another thing you can do: > > FreeBSD Mall! > > The FreeBSD Mall is an online store that sells FreeBSD stuff. My first > order > was over 2,000 dollars, and I got almost every book they sell, and some > clothing. I can personally vouch for them as being not only legit, but > VERY > friendly. > > I not only ALWAYS get my orders on time, I normally get them early. I own > multiple versions of the 4 CD-ROM sets of FreeBSD, but I also have > basically > every book they sell, and I have the Mouse Pad, Case Pins, TONS of > stickers, > and, of course, BSD Magazine, which I HIGHLY recommend to you as a new > comer! > > You can order BSD Magazine from there, and I DO recommend you try this, > as the > info inside, is VERY nice. > > Oh and don't forget a FreeBSD tee shirt, Hat, Boxer Shorts, Mouse Pad, > and, "The Complete FreeBSD" by greg Lehey. It's still the best book out > there. The info is a little dated right now, but all around, FreeBSD > doesn't > change the core values so much that you wont learn anything. > > Order some of the books from the FreeBSD Mall, and read them. > > Also, I'm sure someone else here can point you in the direction of Greg's > web > site, because he has pretty much donated the book for all to download. I > just > can't remember the link. But I highly recommend you read it. > > Also, of course, is the FreeBSD web site itself. You can use "Powered by > FreeBSD" logos, AND you have updated information and tutorials all at > your > finger tips. > > You also have Forums there, and this mailing list to point you in the > right > direction if you ever need help. > > One last thing: > > If you use BSD, or the Internet in general, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND SOMETHING > ELSE! > > I put that whole thing in caps for a reason: > > Doctor Marshal Kirk McKusick! I had the pleasure of talking with him a > few > times in the past, and other than being incredibly funny, he's VERY > interesting. He also has a DVD you can buy that I also own: > > "20 Years of Berkeley Unix". You can get the DVD either from his Web > Site, or > some other BSD online stores. The DVD is great. Basically, it's him doing > a > talk at a BSD Conference, and it's like 2 or 3 hours long. He's goes into > detail not just about BSD but Unix and Multi User Operating Systems in > general, and, he tells the story of how BSD came to be. > > I HIGHLY recommend ANYONE reading this to buy that DVD! I've watched it > hundreds of times and I still laugh and learn something. > > -Allen > > -- > --------------------------------------- > We Are 138! > FreeBSD - PC-BSD - SUSE - Slackware - Debian > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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