Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 00:34:35 +0800 (SGT) From: Patrick Dung <patrick_dkt@yahoo.com.hk> To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list Message-ID: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1376049601.82585.freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> References: <mailman.7.1376049601.82585.freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
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Thanks for reply.=0A=0AI am an user. I am using or thinking from the user p= erspective.=0A=0A1) Perl version change within Major release=0A=0A=0A> Do y= ou see the problem with having to support an ancient Perl version=0A> that = is 13 years old? I'd suspect many modern Perl applications to not=0A> even = work on Perl 5.8.9.=0A=0ACentOS shipped Perl 5.8 in CentOS 5 series. They s= hipped Perl 5.10 in CentOS 6 series.=0ASo far I have no problem in doing th= e OS upgrade within the minor release.=0AIt is because the Perl (or other p= ackages eg. gcc/python) version is consistent between the OS major versions= .=0A=0ALet share an experience for my case.=0AI have installed OTRS (a grea= t ticketing system) in FreeBSD 9.0. The Perl version at that time is 5.12.= =0AFor me, upgrading to FreeBSD 9.1 take some time because the Perl version= at that time is 5.14.=0AOTRS depends on lots of Perl/p5 modules/packages.= =0AThis is not scalable if I need to upgrade multiple servers.=0A=0A=0ASome= (crazy?) ideas:=0Aa) Is it possible to install multiple Perl versions in t= he same server?=0AEach third party Perl packages would linked to the corres= ponding Perl versions?=0AUsers have to update /usr/bin/perl to link to the = desired Perl version (or using wrapper mechanism like /etc/mail/mail.conf).= =0A=0A=0AThe installed package may like these:=0Aperl58-5.8.xxx=0Ap5-perl58= -Net-zzz=0A=0Aperl510-5.10.yyy=0Ap5-perl510-Net-zzz=0A=0A=0AIn this case, t= he user can install multiple Perl in the FreeBSD system.=0A=0Ab) Try to use= the newest stable Perl version at the very beginning FreeBSD major release= .=0AAnd try to maintain the Perl major version consistent within the FreeBS= D minor release.=0A=0AFor example, using Perl 5.14 at FreeBSD 9.0 and Perl = 5.18 for FreeBSD 10.0.=0A=0A2) pkgng=0A=0A> man pkg-check=0A=0A>=A0 pkg che= ck -s is used to find invalid checksums for installed packages.=0A=0A=0AI t= hink this does not protect from the checksum and the files is being changed= at the same time.=0AWhen using pkg_add -r, I am concerned that if the pack= ages was being tampered.=0AAnd I have no way to verify it.=0A=0A>> Or how c= an user authenticate that the package is build by FreeBSD?=0A=0A>I don't th= ink packages are signed yet, but this is permitted by the new=0A>pkg design= and will hopefully happen before too long.=0A=0A=0AGood to hear that.=0A= =0A=0A3) systat=0AI hope systat can record statistics periodically.=0ACurre= ntly systat is like 'top', that is monitoring system resources in real time= .=0A=0AThanks and regards,=0APatrick Dung=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________= __________=0AMessage: 4=0ADate: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:34:21 -0500=0AFrom: Mar= k Felder <feld@FreeBSD.org>=0ATo: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=0ASubject: Re= : Discussing ideas or wish list=0AMessage-ID:=0A=A0=A0=A0 <1375976061.30215= .7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com>=0AContent-Type: text/plain= =0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 8, 2013, at 9:54, Patrick Dung wrote:=0A>=0A> 1) Perl ver= sion change within Major release=0A> If I remembered correctly, FreeBSD 9.0= shipped with perl 5.12 packages in=0A> the DVD.=0A> But in FreeBSD 9.1, Pe= rl 5.14 is shipped.=0A> =0A> I think Perl version should be consistent in t= he FreeBSD 9 series.=0A> The change of Perl version may make user difficult= to upgrade other perl=0A> packages due to dependency issues.=0A=0AThe port= s tree is a "rolling release"=A0 and decides what the default perl=0Aversio= n is, not the FreeBSD release. Let's ignore that though and take a=0Apeek i= nto history using FreeBSD 8 series as an example because it's=0Acloser to E= oL.=0A=0APerl 5.8.0 is officially released July 18, 2002.=0APerl 5.8.9 is o= fficially EoL on Nov 6, 2008.=0A=0AFreeBSD 8.0 released Nov 25, 2009. The p= orts tree's default Perl version=0Aat that point in time is Perl 5.8.9. Bot= h Perl 5.8.9 and 5.10.1 are=0Aavailable as packages at that time.=0A=0AFree= BSD 8.4 released June 7, 2013. The ports tree's default Perl version=0Aat t= hat point in time is 5.14.2.=0A=0AFreeBSD 8.4 could be the last release in = the FreeBSD 8.x series. Its=0Aestimated EoL is June 30, 2015.=0A=0ADo you s= ee the problem with having to support an ancient Perl version=0Athat is 13 = years old? I'd suspect many modern Perl applications to not=0Aeven work on = Perl 5.8.9.=0A=0A> I know pkgng should replaced the old package management = tools in FreeBSD=0A> 10, I hope the situation would improve.=0A> =0A=0AAfte= r the EoL of FreeBSD 8 (estimated June 30, 2015) the old package=0Atools ar= e scheduled to be removed from FreeBSD. This change will be=0AMFC'd back to= 9-STABLE and the release at that time (perhaps=0A9.4-RELEASE?) will not ha= ve the old pkg_* tools. This seems a bit odd to=0Ahappen in the middle of a= series because of POLA, but we can't support=0Athe old package tools forev= er and FreeBSD 9.1-9.3 will have given you=0Aplenty of opportunity to migra= te to the new package format and ease the=0Aupgrade to FreeBSD 10.x.=0A=0A>= 2) pkgng=0A> I think it has checksum checking on the files in the packages= .=0A> Could pkgng detect the packages was being tampered?=0A=0Aman pkg-chec= k=0A=0A=A0 pkg check -s is used to find invalid checksums for installed pac= kages.=0A=0A> Or how can user authenticate that the package is build by Fre= eBSD?=0A> =0A=0AI don't think packages are signed yet, but this is permitte= d by the new=0Apkg design and will hopefully happen before too long.=0A=0A>= 3) FreeBSD's own systat=0A> Yes. there is bsdsar in the ports, but I would= like to see improvement.=0A> For example, stat for multiple CPU, number of= open files/context=0A> switches, one statistics file per day, etc...=0A> = =0A=0AI think systat is great, too. We could probably import some=0Afunctio= nality from OpenBSD as I recall their systat has more features.=0A=0A=0ATha= nk you for your feedback and I hope I've answered a couple of your=0Aquesti= ons. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 9 22:38:16 2013 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG> Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453EFD4B for <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:38:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from rush.bluerosetech.com (rush.bluerosetech.com [IPv6:2607:fc50:1000:9b00::25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B5F926DF for <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (c-76-27-220-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [76.27.220.79]) by rush.bluerosetech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04BB111434; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:fc00:970::b891:3ab8:57cd:8121] (unknown [IPv6:fc00:970::b891:3ab8:57cd:8121]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FC90E4F; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52056F38.7030701@bluerosetech.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 15:37:44 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim <list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Dung <patrick_dkt@yahoo.com.hk> Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list References: <mailman.7.1376049601.82585.freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 22:38:16 -0000 On 8/9/2013 9:34 AM, Patrick Dung wrote: > Let share an experience for my case. I have installed OTRS (a great > ticketing system) in FreeBSD 9.0. The Perl version at that time is > 5.12. For me, upgrading to FreeBSD 9.1 take some time because the > Perl version at that time is 5.14. OTRS depends on lots of Perl/p5 > modules/packages. This is not scalable if I need to upgrade multiple > servers. Perl is not in the base system, so why is this an issue? If you need 5.12 on 9.1, install lang/perl5.12.
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