Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:55:19 -0700 From: Joe Kelsey <joe@zircon.seattle.wa.us> To: "Jason Watkins" <jwatkins@firstplan.com> Cc: "Stable" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: RE: Staying *really stable* in FreeBSD Message-ID: <15155.56039.812973.488190@zircon.zircon.seattle.wa.us> In-Reply-To: <JBEOKPCEMKJLMJAKBECCGENKDBAA.jwatkins@firstplan.com> References: <15155.29806.145760.832648@guru.mired.org> <JBEOKPCEMKJLMJAKBECCGENKDBAA.jwatkins@firstplan.com>
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Jason Watkins writes: > >>> If the problem is instead that STABLE isn't STABLE enough and RELENG > doesn't move fast enough - though evidence for the latter would also > seem to be in short supply - then one of those two problems should be > attacked, rather than trying to automate something that experience > shows doesn't automate well. > > Thanks mike. I didn't mean to criticise anyone, I just mean that the root > problem here is -stable isn't always stable. Sorry Jason. Adding another tag is *never* going to solve your imaginary problem. I say imaginary because it really is not a problem. The people who complain are always people who have an "automatic midnight cvsup" or some other regular procedure that they run without thinking first. As the handbook says, you *must* track the stable mailing list before even thinking about running cvsup against the appropriate tag. Adding a new tag will simply move the problem to those people who still don't read the mailing list or even try to engage their brains before running cvsup. This is an organization of *volunteers*. It is up to each and every individual who wants to run FreeBSD to understand the consequences of their actions before starting. I would personally recommend that most people stay away from FreeBSD. It is definitely *not* a turnkey system. Anyone who has an automatic cvsup and rebuild overnight is just asking for trouble. > Although adding another tag would provide another buffer layer, I > personally feel it's missing the point. Somewhere, someone has to > approve moving things from -current to -stable, and figuring out how > to better equip those people is what I think would bring about the > best situation. Have you ever looked into the committers list? It is simply not possible for there to be any central control over checkins as you describe. The number of projects and people is simply overwhelming. The way to better equip people is to force them to read the handbook. The way to force them to read the handbook is for them to get surprised by their unthinking actions. FreeBSD is not for tyros. > I definately think life is easyer when you rebuild the system every > month or 2 on a reasonable schedual instead of letting changes > accumulate until it becomes a day long affair. I personally think it does not matter how often you cvsup and rebuild. Sometimes, I go for months, sometimes I do it daily. It all depends. If you have any thoughts of running cvsup at all, you need to have a fast connection. It is definitely not for dialup users. Maybe that should go in the handbook--only do it if you have DSL or cable modem or better. My basic point is that it is not possible to "schedule" the activity in advance due to the changing nature of the source tree. You have to constantly monitor the mailing list and make your own decision based on mailing list traffic. /Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
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