Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:28:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com> To: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> Cc: Tim Preston <tim@timpreston.net>, freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSij9j922Nvv1Vhn43HznwpyGT99UZsU674G9hHWzR=UhvQ@mail.gmail.com> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSijc%2B-OLNsyFNdR=jP3VzMi4zUE92i5iv9Pfg6AryDy_KQ@mail.gmail.com> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com>
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I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jails or iocage in an interf=
ace that looks like and behaves Docker-like.
Many people these days don't care what's under the hood.=C2=A0 All they car=
e about is familiarity of interface (GUI)
It would be interesting to see the resource utilization and efficiency of '=
Docker' versus Jails/Iocage. :)
Paul
On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 09:15:24 AM GMT-5, Mario Marietto <mari=
etto2008@gmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
I'm interested to know what you mean for "real needs",because this is the =
point. I imagine that you are thinking about technical needings. I don't th=
ink that the most advantages implementing docker will come from that. I thi=
nk that mostly advantages could be for the user base. Mostly for those user=
s that come from linux or other OS and that already use docker and kubernet=
es. I don't think those users are a small number. Those users could jump to=
FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could be t=
he straw that broke the camel's back. You may argue that the jails are work=
ing already great and that they should use them. I could argue that it's no=
t a tolerant behavior to force them to learn a new technology. So,in the en=
d I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of community =
? Does it need to be populated by a greater number of users that will come =
from another OS base community ?=20
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.or=
g> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:38:47 +0200
Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---> Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on
> technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel.
>=20
> I don't agree with this. In my humble opinion Docker can run on FreeBSD.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You both need to define what you mean by "run d=
ocker", or perhaps
just what aspects of docker you expect to see working (or not) in FreeBSD
and how. Layering Linux filesystem images from docker.io and running them i=
s
very unlikely to be feasible. Defining ocijails with Dockerfiles and
running them as swarms is likely to be possible with some work.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Then you can do a gap analysis and find out wha=
t needs to be done
to make it run or prove that it can't be done depending mostly on what you
mean by "run docker".
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Having done that the next question is whether t=
he result would fill
a real need.
--=20
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>
--=20
Mario.
=20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp179652deyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I believe the simplest thing=
would be to wrap jails or iocage in an interface that looks like and behav=
es Docker-like.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Many people these days don't care what's =
under the hood. All they care about is familiarity of interface (GUI)=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" dat=
a-setdir=3D"false">It would be interesting to see the resource utilization =
and efficiency of 'Docker' versus Jails/Iocage. :)</div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Paul<b=
r></div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp6780a84yahoo_quoted_1689297831" class=3D"ydp678=
0a84yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 09:15:24 AM GMT-5, Mari=
o Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">I'm interested to know what you mean for "real needs",because this is t=
he point. I imagine that you are thinking about technical needings. I don't=
think that the most advantages implementing docker will come from that. I =
think that mostly advantages could be for the user base. Mostly for those u=
sers that come from linux or other OS and that already use docker and kuber=
netes. I don't think those users are a small number. Those users could jump=
to FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could b=
e the <span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en">straw=
that broke the camel's back</span>. You may argue that the jails are worki=
ng already great and that they should use them. I could argue that it's not=
<span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en">a tolerant=
behavior to force them to learn a new technology. So,in the end I ask to m=
yself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of community ? Does it ne=
ed to be populated by a greater number of users that will come from another=
OS base community ? </span><br clear=3D"none"><span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv=
6331727579gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"></span><div id=3D"ydp6780a84yiv63317275=
79gmail-tw-target-text-container" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-=
ta-container ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-F0azHf ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gma=
il-tw-nfl"><pre dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-target-te=
xt" style=3D"text-align:left;" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-dat=
a-text ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-text-large ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gm=
ail-tw-ta"><span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en">=
<br clear=3D"none"></span></pre></div><span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv633172757=
9gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"></span><div id=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-t=
w-target-text-container" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-ta-contai=
ner ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-F0azHf ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-nfl=
"><pre dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-target-text" style=
=3D"text-align:left;" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-data-text yd=
p6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-text-large ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-tw-ta=
"><span class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"><br clear=
=3D"none"></span></pre></div></div><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"ydp6780a84=
yiv6331727579yqt69095" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579yqt5109519830"><div =
class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"ydp6=
780a84yiv6331727579gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFPM Stev=
e O'Hara-Smith <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:steve@sohara.org" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">steve@sohara.org</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D=
"none"></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579g=
mail_quote">On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:38:47 +0200<br clear=3D"none">
Mario Marietto <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com"=
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<b=
r clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
> ---> Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on<b=
r clear=3D"none">
> technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel.<br clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
> I don't agree with this. In my humble opinion Docker can run on FreeBS=
D.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
You both need to define what you mean by "run d=
ocker", or perhaps<br clear=3D"none">
just what aspects of docker you expect to see working (or not) in FreeBSD<b=
r clear=3D"none">
and how. Layering Linux filesystem images from <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ht=
tp://docker.io" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">docker.io</a> and runnin=
g them is<br clear=3D"none">
very unlikely to be feasible. Defining ocijails with Dockerfiles and<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
running them as swarms is likely to be possible with some work.<br clear=3D=
"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Then you can do a gap analysis and find out wha=
t needs to be done<br clear=3D"none">
to make it run or prove that it can't be done depending mostly on what you<=
br clear=3D"none">
mean by "run docker".<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Having done that the next question is whether t=
he result would fill<br clear=3D"none">
a real need.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
-- <br clear=3D"none">
Steve O'Hara-Smith <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:steve@sohara.org" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">steve@sohara.org</a>><br clear=3D"none=
">
</blockquote></div></div><br clear=3D"all"><br clear=3D"none"><span class=
=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br clear=3D"n=
one"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"ydp6780a84yiv6331727579gmail_signature">Mari=
o.<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>
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