Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:29:09 +0100 From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Larry Lile <lile@stdio.com> Cc: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, cvs-all@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current status of the olicom fracas. Message-ID: <16873.919614549@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:30:00 EST." <Pine.BSF.4.05.9902210846280.8995-100000@heathers.stdio.com>
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>Stop advocating and pick up the phone. Call Olicom, [...] Been there done that. I'm not always proud to be of the same nationality as them. Sometimes their heiritage shows too much. (You do know what the "Oli" comes from, right ?) >Don't complain that someone else's efforts >don't measure up to your standards when you are unwilling to put forth >the effort to accomplish it yourself. This is not about my standards, this is about FreeBSDs. Quoting from the back of the 2.2.8 CD: "The system comes with complete source[...]" I don't mind you writing a driver, I think it is fine. But if the driver for one reason or another cannot pass that particular hurdle, then I cannot see how it belongs in the FreeBSD *source* tree. >Sorry Poul, very few people have >tried to add token-ring support to FreeBSD and no one has succeded thus >far. You know, this >could< also be interpreted as lack of interest... :-) I'll admit that at one point in '95 or '96 I could have used a T/R driver for FreeBSD but that is nothing compared to how many times I've needed Ethernet. But I'm glad that you did write it, only too bad that the hardware vendor is not willing to fully cooperate with us. Hopefully other HW vendors will cooperate so that they can get support for their hardware from a driver into the *source* tree of FreeBSD. >Now can we all put aside the hostility and discuss this calmly and >sanely like adults as Jordan suggested earlier. The object files >are MY responsibility, I do not want to see Julian getting roasted >over this. If you want to roast someone, aim my way. When it is >all said and done, it was my doing - I wrote the driver. I'm roasting Julian for overstepping his authority as committer, it was his responsibility to resolve these issues before he commited the code. That is why he is a committer. A committer should for instance be able to figure out that some kind of copyright notice would have to be put in there to describe where the files came from and what rules if any apply to their use. A committer should also be able to figure out that even if object files were legal targets, then i386 objects shouldn't live in sys/dev/oltr, but in sys/i386/somewhere... >Now how do we save the oltr driver and token-ring support for FreeBSD? As I said, until it can live up to "The system comes with complete source[...]" I think it should be packed up with a README and distributed from a friendly FTP site somewhere. Quite possibly from a "pub/FreeBSD/contributed" on ftp.freebsd.org and mirrors, (I would support that). Quite simply put: I don't want to give "1st class" treatment to a company like Olicom, who will not release their sources, but I don't mind giving them 2nd class tickets. The difference is they don't get to sit in our *source* tree. I would be perfectly happy with them releasing the source under the condition that it is NEVER modified for ANY reason without their prior written consent, I have no problem with that, but I have a problem with *object* files in a *source* tree. And I feel I have a certain weight on this issue, since I am in the exact same situation as you are with the M-systems DOC2K driver which I maintain (http://phk.freebsd.dk/doc2k) >PS: I think I may take up windmill jousting as a hobby :P You've come to the right place. Try to suggest a few improvements to the style(9) page over on the hackers, question or chat list, but please keep it away from any list I'm subscribed to. Poul-Henning PS: I think Denmark has one of the highest windmill per capita ratios, and you can actually find one or two lawyers who are specializing in preventing somebody from building a windmill in your neighborhood. I've never met one of them, but I have in mind to ask them about the parallel if I ever do :-) PPS: And before anybody else besides DES get their knickers into a twist: obviously I'm not speaking *for -core*, but I am of course speaking *as a member of -core*. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message
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