Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:42:21 -0500 From: Mark Mayo <mark@vmunix.com> To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com> Cc: dg@root.com, Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [hackers:] Architectural advice needed Message-ID: <19971208204221.23659@vmunix.com> In-Reply-To: <348C78C4.6F5992E1@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 02:46:28PM -0800 References: <199712082204.OAA23754@implode.root.com> <348C78C4.6F5992E1@whistle.com>
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On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 02:46:28PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > David Greenman wrote: > > > > >> Actually, that list hasn't been used for over a year and should > > >> probably be retired. I don't think it ever fulfilled its purpose. > > > > > >That's because no-one ever talks about architecture stuff anymore, and > > >just 'implements' nowadays. I think it *could* fulfill its purpose if > > >it was actually promoted/used. I would have used it in the past if I > > >thought it would be monitored, although it wasn't. Could we consider it > > >'back in use' for questions such as Julians? > > > > That's silly. Of course we talk about architectural issues. It's just that > > these days it's easier for me and others to pick up the phone and call the > > interested parties or send directed email than it is to send to lists full > > of indifferent people. > > > > which leaves those of us that ARE interested, but not being called, > kinda 'out of the loop'. That was one of my questions.. > "How can we get a critical mass together on architectural issues?" Well, I'm not even remotely involved with FreeBSD architectural issues, but I have faced a similar challenge with an atmospheric model that was probably at the same level of complexity (from a high-level piont-of-view) as you are currently facing. With the model project, we were running a tight budget (all the money went to supercomputer time.....) and the Net was the only way to "conference". We tried several methods, but it was very difficult to have a productive session through email with more than 2 people. Although mailing lists are somewhat pseudo-real-time, I found that you need a real "conversation" to hash out complex issues. In the end, we ended up using IRC. This was good and bad. The only way that we could keep it organized was by having a team-leader who would organize an agenda for the IRC meeting before hand, and forward it to everyone through the mailing list. Initial, brief feedback was requested about the agenda issues on the mailing list. A time was agreed upon and a chanel chosen (we just created one each time..). Overall, the IRC meetings were quite productive. There were minor annoyances like delays, and occasion channel "spam", but they were acceptable. There were still problems communicating ideas, mostly because on IRC you can't wave your arms around or grab people and shake them! :-) The other major problem, of course, was simply scheduling... our project, like the FreeBSD project, involved people located in Europe and North America. One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given the relatively primitive tools used! If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer out there! :-) cya, -Mark > > > > -DG > > > > David Greenman > > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU
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