Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:22:47 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/www/ijb - Imported sources Message-ID: <19980504152247.10976@follo.net> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980504000437.20104M-100000@sasami.jurai.net>; from Matthew N. Dodd on Mon, May 04, 1998 at 12:16:36AM -0400 References: <19980504050129.52485@follo.net> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980504000437.20104M-100000@sasami.jurai.net>
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On Mon, May 04, 1998 at 12:16:36AM -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> > You're employing a crack (that's ijb) to avoid paying for (that's viewing
> > ads) the production of software/content. You may or may not be inside the
> > law - that's not something that I'm qualified to determine.
>
> Just because the system is broken and they account for 'hits' via the HTTP
> GET of a graphic image doesn't make me a criminal when I don't load the
> image with the page. HTTP/HTML does not require that I load images at
> all.
Eh - the problem isn't the number of hits. The problem is the number of
displayed advertisements.
> > However, it is fairly clear that what you're doing deprive the rightful
> > owner/creator of their payment - which is what is the point of piracy.
> > It might not feel like it, but in practice it has the exact same
> > results. You don't have to like it, but I can't see any reason to
> > retract my statement :-(
>
> Again, I don't see how I'm at fault when you (the seller of ad space) fail
> to accurately track usage.
>
> If TV and Radio stations sold advertising the way you do nobody would
> advertise as the statement 'we -think- your add will be played 5 times a
> day but aren't quite sure.' would be highly offensive to the people buying
> advertising space from you.
You're totally off base (no offense intended). That's the way TV and radio
stations sell ad space ("we -think- that so-and-so many people will see your
ad"). Web-sites sells by banner impression - how many times that particular
ad has been displayed. This is (if you're going to sell mindshare, as
opposed to doing cost-per-action) the most honest method I can think of.
Most sites will also give their advertisers the number of page-views as
opposed to advertisement impressions, so they get the ratios, too.
> What you (the seller of advertising space) need to do is find a better way
> of accounting for the content of the HTML you are spewing to the browser
> and count the number of times you send an <IMG> tag of a particular URL
> instead of the number of times that url is accessed.
That's better for the sellers of advertising space, but it is worse for the
advertisers. The advertisers want to pay for each time their ad has been
shown, not for each time the page has been shown - they're advertisers, not
sponsors.
> > I'm not in any way a practicing lawyer (as if you didn't know that ;-).
> > I attempt to be a practicing ethical human being; I don't even always
> > pass that test...
>
> Striving for upright ethis is indeed a good goal though passing the buck
> and requiring a particular behavior in order to remain ethical in light
> ofsomeone's dishonesty as an advertising provider is another.
You're off base. It is not dishonesty - selling per impression is total
honesty. I can't even understand how you reasoned to arrive at the above
conclusion?
> If you are not informing your clients of how many tiems you requested a
> browser load their ad you are guilty of fraud.
Eh? They're informed, but they're not interested. Besides, they're not my
advertisers - they're the advertisers of the web-sites I visit. I have
looked into the market for various reasons, but my salary is in no way paid
by Internet advertising, and never has been. (I can't predict the future,
but I'm fairly certain it won't be significant up to my personal
event horizon - which is about 6 months away).
> Put that in your ethical pipe and smoke it. :)
Didn't work - you've swindled me, selling straw instead of grass ;-)
Eivind.
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