Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:58:05 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net> To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] Message-ID: <199901171858.MAA40424@unix.tfs.net> In-Reply-To: <199901170841.AAA05140@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jan 17, 99 00:41:49 am"
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In reply: > > i also pointed out the fact that most other countries respect private > > property in the manner we do under their laws, and that the argument > > is applicable anywhere these laws and democracies exist. > > The argument needs simplistic, narrow minds like yours in which to > sprout. Regrettably your mentality's not entirely confined to the USA. [most of this is tongue in cheek] I guess everyone is right. I seem to be in the minority here. Laws get in the way. We MUST have a free-for-all! We need to keep going in circles creating newer ways to keep them out, no matter how many of them they get around, and no laws to protect us when they do. We need key escrow to ensure identification is authentic, IP numbers given at birth, and other TECHNOLOGICAL solutions to the problem, but with no laws to protect us from people who will get around every one of those technological solutions. Hey! Here's a good one! How about just implanting their access code in their right hand or forehead! No laws would be needed for that! Identity would be assured! May someone walk into your home, with you right there. Do whatever they want by whatever means they choose, and may you have no legal recourse to punish them for their actions. If you don't believe in laws and enforcement for unacceptable behaviour, then by all means! Don't be selective though, to do so is purely hypocritical. People who don't support the ancient concept of laws and the need for the enforcement of them will not change their minds, until something happens to them. I really hope something happens to you that you cannot do something about, maybe you will change your mind. Maybe not. Tell me, in your country is the person helping the criminal achieve his goal as guilty as the criminal himself? This is a fairly universal concept, if your country does not, it is definitely in the minority worldwide. Do you think murderers and thieves should not have laws made against them? How about any other crime? Yes my arrogant idea is not limited to my country. As a matter of fact, it didn't even originate in my country. It originated in Ur. A man named King Hammurabi originated the idea an estimated 5000 years ago. A society without laws to control undesirable behaviour is no longer a society, they tend to self-destruct. If you don't believe in laws to control society, then please do not ask the laws to help you if you are wronged. If you don't believe in laws to control society, then please don't EVER let me hear you make any complaints about society where you say something should be done. If you support anarchy on the net, by all means, support pure anarchy on the net. Remove all break-in laws, remove all DoS laws, remove all laws relating to it, and don't EVER ask for any to be put into place. Let's see how fast it self-destructs. Hmmm, spam from australia, DoS the entire country from multiple OC-48's on every incoming connection. Punish everyone for that one spammer, with no laws to prevent it. Hmmm, that COULD be fun! Either support laws to solve the problems of society, or don't. Please do not be selective! Just because a law is hard to enforce, does not mean it should not be made. Sooner or later, if a law is hard to enforce, positive identification will be mandated. IPv6 provides that along with number portability, your IP can by given to you at birth, and then we will know exactly who to punish. Is this arrogant? I don't think so, but now that I have made clear the logical implementation of IPv6, I doubt if you would ever support it being implemented based on your arguments! In an anarchy model of the net, I would be able to punish every citizen of your country for one person's act. You support that by your arguments for an anarchy model net. I'm not that cruel, I believe in punishing the individual, not the population that individual is part of. Maybe all spammers should be subject to massive worldwide DoS attacks, since this seems to be the only way to do it in a way that everyone seems to support. Since everyone agrees that DoS attacks are hard to trace, especially if coming simultaneously from thousands of sites at once, maybe we can solve the problem in ways that you would agree with. Who gives a damn if everything on the net grinds to a halt because of it, eh? Maybe, by your arguments, they will remove the DoS attack laws because they can't enforce them! By your arguments everyone will cry for the law to be removed because it's ineffective! Since all but a few responses on this list support the absurd notion of anarchy, I consider this thread finished, you deserve everything you support, muhahahahahaha! All of you people have swayed me. Coordinated massive scale DoS attacks from a mind bogglingly large number of sources is the cure. Be careful what YOU ask for, you might just get it! No laws and a free-for-all! Either way, the spammers lose. By the way, that'll be me in the dump truck dumping the manure in front of the front door to your home and business. Too bad you don't support laws against that, especially since you won't physically see me doing it! People want absurd arguments, I can play that game too! You guys really deserve to get what you support! Don't turn into a hypocrite, and beg for laws for protection when it happens too! If people get pissed off enough, they will take things into their own hands. I'd rather have laws and enforcement personally. I'm tired of arguing with the absurd. Internet regulation WILL happen. People with their heads up their asses are the reason for it, and of course they won't like it, but who cares. Where there is no incentive for the criminals and unethical to not be, they will be. No matter what stands in their way in the absence of laws, they will get around it, and be around to do it again, and again, and again. The worse the problems get, and the longer we go without laws will determine the types of laws we eventually get. If you want to wait for IP given at birth, key escrow, and implants, all mandated by law, you can feel free to not discuss it until the problems get that bad. I only argue for the easy way, and that is to act now. Hold people accountable for unethical and criminal actions now, it's a lot easier, and cheaper. [cranking up Ted Nugent] "FREE-FOR-ALL!" [changing stations] "...on the Eve of Destruction!" Hmmmm... Must be an omen. End of thread. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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