Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:36:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> To: wes@softweyr.com Cc: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu, tlambert@primenet.com, brett@lariat.org, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD emulation for linux Message-ID: <199903250136.SAA12426@usr08.primenet.com> In-Reply-To: <000346da085df88c_mailit@thrallo.utah.xylan.com> from "Wes Peters" at Mar 24, 99 05:59:47 pm
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> >There is a market for FreeBSD native binaries. This can be stated > >as fact, given that people buy binaries (including Linux binaries) > >to run on FreeBSD. But how do you size this market? > > By getting the vendors to count it. What this has to do with a > FreeBSD emulator in Linux is completely beyond me. You have to subtract out FreeBSD users using Linux binaries from the FreeBSD native binary market size. > >You may damn the source, but Brett's OS/2 analogy is apt. > > This is exactly what I disagree with; the OS/2 analogy is not apt > regardless of the source. OS/2 died for a number of reasons, not > the least of which was that IBM marketed it horribly and delivered > a non-working system for the first several major releases. Let's divorce that little "and" as "necessary but not sufficient". So your posit is that FreeBSD is being marketed better than OS/2 was? > >I personally think that a FreeBSD emulation layer for Linux, and > >other OS's, is important for FreeBSD, from a marketing standpoint. > > I personally think a FreeBSD emulation layer for Linux is a huge waste > of time, because I strongly doubt you will get Linus to put it in the > kernel, nor will you ever convince any of the major distributors -- > i.e. RedHat and nobody else these days -- to put it in their distribution. That's rather irrelevent, even if I think you're wrong. Large portions of the Linux kernel are distributed as kernel modules, and as the recent Red Hat articles point out, all Red Hat cares about is units shipped. > >From a technical standpoint, Solaris and SCO are implementing Linux > >emulation as well. The Linux ABI looks to be gaining momentum as > >the cross-x86 UNIX ABI. This is technically very bad. > > And there is not a damned thing we can do about it, because this decision > is being made by EXACTLY the sort of people who'd be running FreeBSD > instead of Linux if they had any sense at all. Cogito ergo Doh! I don't understand your statement. Why would the Solaris and SCO employees dwho made the decision to write the Linux ABI code be running FreeBSD? > So, what do you do? Get some talented FreeBSD hackers willing to keep > up with the shifting sands of the Linux ABI as well as possible, point > out to people that most Linux apps run on FreeBSD too, so they're not > risking much, and do an effective job of advocacy in getting the vendors > to decide which side of the open source bread the butter is on. This limits you to a zero sum game the size of the Linux market. > The one point you and Brett have missed the entire time: it doesn't > matter one whit whether the app is a Linux or FreeBSD binary, as long > as it runs reliably and solves the user's problem. And here's the one point that you and Jordan have missed the entire time: It doesn't matter one whit TO THE USER whether the app is a Linux or FreeBSD binary, as long as it runs reliably and solves the user's problem. It doesn't matter one whit TO THE USER whether they are running the app on a Linux or a FreeBSD system. But it matters a hell of a lot to FreeBSD whether the app is a Linux or FreeBSD binary, in terms of gaining critical mass And it matters a hell of a lot to FreeBSD whether the app is running on a Linux or a FreeBSD system. > Getting vendors to > *test* their apps on FreeBSD under emulation, and bug-fix THAT, is by > far enough of a win for us. We should be concentrating on THAT effort > rather than developing software for Linux that nobody, not a single > Linux OR FreeBSD user, is ever going to use. Demonstrate success at this, and I may be willing to join your bandwagon caliming that the number of native FreeBSD apps in the future is irrelevent. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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