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Date:      Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:59:11 -0800
From:      Hubbard Jordan <jkh@ixsystems.com>
To:        Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: relaunchd: a portable clone of launchd
Message-ID:  <1D6BDF3C-28E7-40C4-A8A2-3A914A3CC76B@ixsystems.com>
In-Reply-To: <20160112125948.GH3625@kib.kiev.ua>
References:  <5687D3A9.5050400@NTLWorld.com> <CAGfo=8kXzNVKy9gx0jkME4iRRyrgrsfpPnW3nYrZC0gysapPcg@mail.gmail.com> <817860B6-5D67-41A3-ADD7-9757C7E67C35@gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1601081020270.34827@nog2.angryox.com> <07D83705-D89F-4125-B57B-920EDEBC8A85@rdsor.ro> <70975696-3E07-48B9-BFD1-3C2F51E715BB@icloud.com> <E85C42D4-963B-4632-9182-E591A80D1306@rdsor.ro> <76E6AF2A-917B-41EB-883A-C27AB2BB9F71@ixsystems.com> <20160112125948.GH3625@kib.kiev.ua>

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> On Jan 12, 2016, at 4:59 AM, Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I highly recommend to Google for "Mach IPC sucks" if reader is really =
interested.

And here we return to the usual trap=E2=80=A6

=E2=80=9CMach IPC sucks!=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9COK.  What do you propose that will address all of the same =
concerns?=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9Cdbus!=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9C*Sigh*.  You haven=E2=80=99t even looked at the two =
technologies in any depth, have you?  Go read the dbus wikipedia page, =
at least!  Unix domain sockets underneath, no kernel<->userland =
communication path, no trusted IPC mechanism, no support for large =
messages=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9COK, so something new!!  We should totally create an IPC for the =
New Millennium!=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CThat would be you then?  Where=E2=80=99s your white paper?  =
Where=E2=80=99s your reference implementation?=E2=80=9D

<crickets>

Sorry.  Been there, had this debate, and while it=E2=80=99s always =
extremely easy to fling poop at an existing mechanism, it turns out =
it=E2=80=99s so much harder to actually *create an alternative* that =
this kind of discussion only serves to throw cold water on evolution =
(=E2=80=9Cthe perfect being the enemy of the good enough=E2=80=9D) and =
the end-result is that evolution does not occur.

I also already covered how it=E2=80=99s very easy to layer something =
like XPC *on top* of Mach IPC such that you, the programmer, need never =
be exposed to the Mach IPC APIs (but still get to leverage the internal =
capabilities I=E2=80=99ve already covered).

Sorry, Konstantin, but yours is a non-argument.

- Jordan




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