Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:16:56 +0000 From: Mark Ovens <mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> To: Jay Nelson <noslenj@swbell.net> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Guns and freedom [Was: Re: On "intelligent people" and "dangers to BSD"] Message-ID: <20000325231656.E234@parish> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.05.10003251446080.3693-100000@acp.swbell.net>; from noslenj@swbell.net on Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 04:21:57PM -0600 References: <20000325104927.B234@parish> <Pine.BSF.4.05.10003251446080.3693-100000@acp.swbell.net>
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On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 04:21:57PM -0600, Jay Nelson wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Mark Ovens wrote:
>
> >On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 06:07:47PM -0600, Jay Nelson wrote:
> >> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Paul Richards wrote:
> >>
> >> >Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > > In one word: tyranny.
> >> >> >
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> >Ok, not the best example. I guess the handguns law is a better one since
> >> >it's now illegal to have a handgun in the UK even if you bought it
> >> >before the law changed.
> >> >
> >> >Everyone here who had one was required to hand them in when the law came
> >> >in to effect.
> >>
> >> I hope they weren't foolish enough to actually hand them in.
> >>
> >
> >Most of them did (there was a compensation scheme). The big difference
> >of course is that over here most people realize that there is no real
> >justification for *any* civilian, except farmers, to own firearms (we
> >don't have grizzlies and rattlesnakes, so walking in the hills is
> >safe).
>
> By extension, then, there is no justification for any civilian to have
> encryption technology or open source since both can be used to cause
> far more harm than a hand gun.
Hmm, I don't think "Go ahead, punk, make my day" would have had quite
the same impact if Clint had shoved a piece of paper with his PGP key
written on it in the guy's face instead of a .357 Magnum :-P
Seriously though, I understand what you are getting at but it isn't
really a fair comparison. A gun has a very immediate and terminal
effect.
> Unless I misread history, the hills of
> England weren't safe in 1940. England was also disarmed then. Why
> would you risk repeating the exercise? Once you start giving up
> freedom, when do you stop?
>
What freedom? I would say that the freedom to go about your business
without the fear of being attacked, raped, stabbed, shot etc.
transcends any freedom to own/carry a gun (or any weapon for that
matter.
I have a 13-year old daughter and her freedom is severely curtailed
(by me and my wife) compared to the freedom we had at that age (early
'70s). OK, so this isn't specifically because of guns, but because of
a general increase in lawlessness which threatens her safety. Even so,
she has had her freedom taken away.
A popular TV programme over here is "Police, Camera, Action" which
comprises footage from the video cameras used in police cars and
helicopters and includes clips from many countries including the US.
Whilst a lot of it is amusing and entertaining some of it is decidedly
scary. One clip from an American police car showed the officer pulling
over a car full of kids. He walked to the driver's door and the driver
just shot him with a handgun. The officer was unhurt, apart from some
heavy bruising, thanks to his bullet-proof vest. Although it didn't
specify in the programme it is perfectly possible that the kid may
have owned the gun legitimately. How can anyone justify the "freedom"
to own firearms when that sort of thing happens?
Do you own a gun? If so, why do you own it? Have you ever used it in
anger?
Americans and Britons will probably, for the most part, never agree on
the subject of firearms as we grew up in countries whose gun laws are
at opposite extremes.
> Since the subject of this thread is: 'On "intelligent people" and
> "dangers...', does anyone see a connection with this and the
> hand-wringing over what BSD, Inc. may do?
>
Subject line changed :)
> -- Jay
>
>
>
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--
Seminars, n.:
From "semi" and "arse", hence, any half-assed discussion.
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