Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:20:31 +0100 From: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" <jhs@jhs.muc.de> To: Peter Mutsaers <peter@mutsaers.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Hartmut Pilch" <phm@ffii.org> Subject: Software Patents. Was Re: FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT Message-ID: <200012220120.eBM1KVp10419@jhs.muc.de> In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Mutsaers <peter@mutsaers.com> of "21 Dec 2000 15:04:11 %2B0100." <87itod98h0.fsf@mutsaers.com>
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Peter Mutsaers wrote: > >> "babkin" == babkin <babkin@bellatlantic.net> writes: > babkin> Sorry for a stupid question but why would not they patent > babkin> this protocol then ? For example, PostScript is patented > babkin> by Adobe and the only reason everyone is able to use it is > babkin> that Adobe had explicitly granted this right to the > babkin> public. > > I don't think this is possible worldwide. Not sure, there's WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organisation ?), (http://www.wipo.org maybe?) but not sure how it works. > In Europe, software > patents do not exist and cannot be granted. Wrong ! Sadly ! That's the old simple theoretical world I learnt about back in University in the late 70's, it changed & got worse ... lawyers encroached, & the EPO expanded like crazy ! The key words "As Such" in regard to software patents bring an ironic smile to the lips of patent examiners in the field. ( & I'm being precise here, about the smile, I lunch often with examiners at http:/www.epo.org = European Patent Office, Nice food, nice people, shame about the patents ! They're clever people & personal friends, & I do my small bit to persuade them to be careful of the effects of what they grant, but the patent system is really sick, change needs to come from top down, not bottom up). > There was an attempt to > change this lately, but (luckily) it failed for the time being. Not quite. From inside authoritative source at EPO, I understand there was an attempt by the patent lawyers to encroach further on our industry, & it failed, or was put into abeyance. (The door IMO is still plenty wide enough for many patent vampire professionals to make a good living.) To find out more about recent change, or lack of change, go look for decisions of the recent week a half "Diplomatic Conference" in EPO, Munich Germany. 75% of the EPO articles were up for review, they didn't get through it all. > The > European Commision was convinced by open source advocates that > software patents are bad. Not as far as I know, no yet, would be nice if they were so persuaded though, that effort is ongoing & really wants us BSD folk to join in, Linux has waved the flag so far. > At least it made them think twice and > postpone the process. The situation is bad, complex, & hard to read about if you get too deep (the 3 official languages of the European Patent Office are English German & French), & I don't enjoy reading legal stuff in `foreign' :-) > The only thing you can protect is the implementation (the program, > in this case to read/write the protocol) under copyright. One can patent methodolgies I believe, a trojan horse for software patents. I wish you were right, but you'r not, your out of date & wrong, the situation has got a lot worse than people think. I wrote a web page on software patents: http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/txt/patents.html http://www.muc.de/~jhs/txt/patents.html The main value of the page is perhaps the URLS it contains to far more authoritative sites, I'm afraid my own text is perhaps half baked. but I'd really encourage all BSD people who care about software patents & how they are damaging free software etc, to bounce through URLs on my page, & go on to far better sites such as http://www.ffii.org http://www.freepatents.org http://petition.eurolinux.org http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/savingeurope.html http://swpat.ffii.org/vreji/pikta = Horror Gallery of Software Patents I have CC'd "Hartmut Pilch" <phm@ffii.org> who is _far_ better informed about patents than I am, & he can correct me, & take the discussion further, he uses Linux himself I believe, but is open to BSD, & is really keen to get some of us BSD people on board with the Linux majority in the anti software patent movement. "Hartmut Pilch" <phm@ffii.org> would also be delighted to receive an official statement from the BSD bodies, so if anyone reading is in position to get any of core@[free/net/open]bsd.org to send him a statement, please help ! Again, please, before anyone engage me in argument, & no disrespect to anyone intended, but if you'r just a programmer, & think you know more than me about patents, you probably don't, so save your time, some of that knowledge from all those lunches with EPO examiners has finally rubbed off on me (when we weren't talking skiing or whatever else), & I find the whole thing very complex, & depressing. The people who could easily correct me are Hartmut (fair enough no complaints there), or the patent lawyers & examiners, but that would get very legalistic & complex, & personally I'd prefer the patent lawyers were all on a one way rocket to mars (Ref telephone sanitisers in Hitchhikers guide to the Universe, a BBC Radio series a while back). So here's hoping folk engage the much better informed & more authoritative "Hartmut Pilch" <phm@ffii.org> on the subject of software patents, & let me make a futile attempt to scurry back to lurker status on this issue (fat chance I guess ;-) Julian - Julian Stacey Unix Consultant - Munich Germany http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/ Considering Linux ? Try FreeBSD with its 4200 packages ! Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Kau/Schnupftabak probieren ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
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