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Date:      Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:48:09 +0100
From:      Mark Murray <mark@grondar.org>
To:        Peter Jeremy <peterjeremy@optushome.com.au>
Cc:        freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: dev/random 
Message-ID:  <200404151448.i3FEm9In021190@grimreaper.grondar.org>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:05:06 %2B1000." <20040414090506.GA25565@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> 

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Peter Jeremy writes:
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:28:16PM -0700, Brooks Davis wrote:
> >To be clear, the problem is not that you can't open /dev/random for
> >read, it's that read() blocks until sufficent entropy arrives.  It's
> >worth noting that the quality of entropy needed in initdiskless is
> >pretty minimal.  rand() would actually be fine here other then the fact
> >that use of rand should not be encouraged.
> 
> If you don't need a great deal of entropy, you might be able to get
> away with stirring in the time of day, CPU cycle counter[1], and maybe
> time a couple of arbitrary disk seeks.  If you had a _really_ cheap
> stirring function, maybe stir in all of KVM (this should vary slightly
> from boot to boot).  This should be enough entropy to get to the
> point where you can start loading or acquiring reasonable entropy.

Check /etc/rc.d/*random* - we've been doing this for years. :-)

> I recall being bitten on several occasions when I was trying to use
> ed(1) in single user mode and having ed decide there wasn't enough
> entropy to create its temporary file.
> 
> Of course, the default behaviour of automatically building ssh host
> keys as part of the boot sequence (when there's virtually no entropy
> available) is probably undesirable.

We understand the problem all too well.

There are two conflicting parts; 1) Starting the device early enough
and 2) making it secure (enough).

Most of the entropy arguments involve, in effect, differing opinions
on what "early enough" and "secure enough" mean.

M
--
Mark Murray
iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH



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