Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:32:12 -0600 From: Jay Moore <jaymo@cromagnon.cullmail.com> To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Foundation Message-ID: <200412231732.12666.jaymo@cromagnon.cullmail.com> In-Reply-To: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNCEMPEPAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com> References: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNCEMPEPAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com>
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On Thursday 23 December 2004 04:34 am, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > On Wednesday 22 December 2004 11:02 am, Troy Mills wrote: > > > As some of you may or may not know the FreeBSD Foundation supports the > > > FreeBSD developers financially via funds mainly from donations from > > > the public. Anyway there is a IRS "1/3rd test" for "public support" > > > and the current foundation ratio that is a little out of whack due to > > > a few generous people donating large sums of money. I have no idea > > > what will happen if they cannot remain a public charity but I'm sure > > > the affects wont be positive as they clearly stated that it is in > > > there interest to remain a public charity. > > QUESTION: Do sales of the FreeBSD CDs support the project? And if so, > > now? > > > > I thought I _was_ supporting the project through my CD > > subscription... I was > > not aware of the FreeBSD Foundation (thanks for the enlightenment), but > > financial support for software developers of any kind seems a bit of a > > stretch for a "charity". Perhaps I'm just not in tune with the legal > > definition of a charity. > > Hi Jay, > > The short answer to your question is "it depends on who you buy > your CD's from" > > If you are buying them from http://www.freebsdmall.com then yes, > they have provided significant support in the past and still do - in > February 2004 they contributed $5K to The FreeBSD Foundation - and in > the past, years ago when they were Walnut Creek CDROM they contributed > far more support to the Project. Yes - I buy from FreeBSD mall which I thought was run by Walnut Creek. I've had this subscription since 3.0 or 3.1... the cd's keep coming. I'd say if the new owners aren't giving the project the same cut as the previous owners, then maybe consider doing something else??? > Now, as for the Foundation's status as a charity: > > I'll start with asking you a simple question: Setting aside the > legal definitions, what in your mind IS a charity, exactly? Hey look - I don't need a lecture about charity, and I'm not disputing that the foundation is "legally" classified as a charity. In my mind, I would consider it more like a not-for-profit organization; charities are organizations that help the needy - people who can't help themselves. And by the way - that IS the dictionary definition of a charity. I'm not sure what dictionary you're reading from. > Well, to a lot of people, a charity is simply a kind of accepted > Robin Hood - it takes from the (willing) rich and gives to the > poor and needy. > > But, this narrow definition isn't the dictionary definition of > a charity, and it really isn't the general definition of a charity > either. For example, take the Catholic Church. This is legally > and in many people's eyes morally, a charity. Yet, while Catholic > churches run ministries that help the poor, the Catholic Church > is by no means giving everything it has to the poor - it's accounted > the wealthiest organization on the face of the Earth, for starters, > and there are many thousands of projects that Catholics do that > aren't ministering to the poor and needy, but rather projects > that are for the public good that benefit the general public. Oh my goodness - now that's an interesting comparison: FreeBSD Foundation and the Catholic church. My Dad was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland - so this analogy has convinced me to give :) > My definition of a charity, and the dictionary definition of a > charity, is that a charity is an organization that administers a > pot of money and talent that they dole out to not just needy people, but > to people and groups that do what you call Good Works - that is, > benevolent projects that have as sole purpose the benefit of > the general public - ie: us. > > So on to your question about why are we paying software developers? > > Well it's like this. There are things that are part of FreeBSD that > need to be done and have as a benefit, the entire FreeBSD project, > and in fact, anyone who uses FreeBSD. And, as FreeBSD moves more > and more away from a pure "hobbiest" operating system and becomes > a player in the commercial sector, increasingly these things are > issues with commercial software. > > For example, every time that one of the Ziff-Davis ragazines does > yet another tired 'bake-off' contest between Windows and FreeBSD, > somebody from the FreeBSD camp must spend a lot of time hand-holding > the moron writers that write the bake-off articles. Who is that > person going to be? Will it be some young, but inexperienced > FreeBSD advocate who is very eager to do it and will do it for free? > Or will it be some experienced FreeBSD person who's time is > expensive, and in order to do it will have to tell paying clients > to wait an extra week? Which one of these people do you think > is going to help FreeBSD score higher? > > Software companies that are contemplating porting their commercial > projects to UNIX versions, they read these tired bake-off contests. > And they aren't going to spend money on an operating system that is > represented in these articles as an unsupported, unreliable, > operating system. > > The long and short of it is that BSD in general survives due to > code and assistance rendered by the software industry, specifically > commercial producers. If the industry didn't provide jobs for > thes developers they wouldn't have the time to work on FreeBSD. > Some of these commercial software companies have products that depend on > FreeBSD and when there is a problem in FreeBSD these companies pay > for the time that developers spend fixing FreeBSD problems. > > So, to keep these commercial consumers happy with FreeBSD, the > Project needs to meet them halfway. For example the port of the > Sun JDK to FreeBSD. I don't honestly think that there is a > developer in the world who doesen't work for Sun that really wants > to spend their free time fixing bugs in Sun's Java code, to get it to > run on FreeBSD. Even Sun's developers don't want to do this dirty > work. But if it's going to get done someone has to do it, > so that is why the FreeBSD Foundation exists - to step in and pay for > development when completing a project like the JDK port has > a clear and obvious benefit to the public good. That pretty > much defines a charity, don't you think? I think you are as full of shit as a Christmas goose, Ted. You know what - I've been supporting the FreeBSD project for a few years with CD purchases. I'll continue to do so. I might even make a cash contribution to the project. But in my opinion, calling the FreeBSD foundation a "charity" denigrates the project. That's my opinion, and I don't care to debate it. Merry Christmas to All, Jay
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