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Date:      Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:46:50 -0800 (PST)
From:      Danial Thom <danial_thom@yahoo.com>
To:        Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, "Loren M. Lang" <lorenl@alzatex.com>
Cc:        Yance Kowara <yance_kowara@yahoo.com>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   RE: FreeBSD router two DSL connections
Message-ID:  <20051223234650.70105.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNOEBHFDAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com>

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Ted the incompetent, wrong on all counts once
again:


--- Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
wrote:

> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Danial Thom
> [mailto:danial_thom@yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:56 AM
> >To: Loren M. Lang; Ted Mittelstaedt
> >Cc: Yance Kowara;
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >Subject: Re: FreeBSD router two DSL
> connections
> >
> >
> >All upstream ISPs are
> >connected to everyone on the internet, so it
> >doesn't matter which you send your packets to
> >(the entire point of a "connectionless"
> network.
> >They both can forward your traffic to wherever
> >its going.
> 
> They aren't going to forward your traffic
> unless
> it's sourced by an IP number they assign.  To
> do otherwise means they would permit you to
> spoof IP
> numbers.  And while it's possible some very
> small
> ISP's run by idiots that don't know any better
> might
> still permit this, their feeds certainly will
> not.

Yes they will. Routers route based on dest
address only. Are you somehow suggesting that an
ISP can't be dual homed and use only one link if
one goes down, since some of the addresses sent
up the remaining pipe wouldn't have source
addresses assigned by that upstream provider? You
are beyond clueless, Ted. Why do you keep opening
your mouth?

> 
> >For efficiencies sake, you may argue
> >that sending to the ISP that sent you the
> traffic
> >will be a "better path", but if one of your
> pipes
> >is saturated and the other running at 20% 
> 
> letsseenow, these are full duplex 'pipes', can
> we have some direction this saturation is
> taking
> place in?  I mean, since you are at least
> trying to
> make a senseless explanation sound right, you
> might
> as well try a bit harder.

Its not senseless, you just don't understand how
the internet works, apparently. I do this for a
living, and you just yap.

If you were able to "send back" the data on the
"pipe it arrived on" then you would have uneven
use of the "pipes". So one could be saturation
the the other highly unused. Balancing the
outgoing data would reduce the latency that
occurs when a "pipe" is saturated. Its hard to
explain calculus to some who can't add or
subtract ted, so you should figure out how
routing works before you try something this
complicated.

> 
> >then
> >its likely more efficient to keep your pipes
> >filled and send to "either" isp. You can
> achieve
> >this with per-packet load-balancing with
> ciscos,
> 
> per packet load balancing is for parallel links
> between 2 endpoints.  Not three, as in you,
> your first ISP, and your second ISP.

Wrong again, Ted. Usually thats how it is used to
gain extra throughput, but thats not the only
thing that it can be used for. Since the internet
is connectionless (back to school for you Ted),
per packet balancing can utilize 2 outgoing pipes
to different ISPs as well. Obviously since
failover on dual-homed network works, you can
send your packets to any ISP you want. Routers
route based on destination address, as anyone who
knows how routers work knows. You can even use
per packet load balancing on 2 lines to the same
ISP when the other end doesn't support it; using
2 pipes in one direction and only one in the
other. You can be innovative when you actually
understand how things work, Ted.

> 
> Surprising you would drag up a Ciscoism as
> your such a big fan of BSD-based routers.
> 
> >or bit-balancing with a product like ETs for
> >FreeBSD. Unless your 2 isps are connected
> >substantially differently (say if one is in
> >Europe and one in the US),  you'll do better
> >keeping your pipes balanced, as YOU are the
> >bottleneck, not the upstream, assuming you
> have
> >quality upstream providers.
> >
> 
> Sometimes you run into someone who is so
> ignorant
> of the subject of which he is trying to speak,
>  - routing in this case - that you can't even
> argue with the person.  Kind of like trying to
> explain the concept of the fossil record to a
> creationist.  This is one of these times.

Yes Ted. People run into you, the ultimate
ignoramous. I have 3000 ISP customers. This is
not just theory; its being done. You are wrong
about every single thing you said in this thread.


DT


	
		
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