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Date:      Fri, 20 Dec 2024 07:20:02 -0800 (PST)
From:      "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
To:        Kyle Evans <kevans@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, Robert Clausecker <fuz@fuz.su>, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: Removing shar(1)
Message-ID:  <202412201520.4BKFK2pH037264@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
In-Reply-To: <348991f2-ab8f-4b0e-b171-bb7de10b1112@FreeBSD.org>

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> On 12/20/24 08:56, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
> >> On 12/18/24 05:04, Robert Clausecker wrote:
> >>> Hi Kyle,
> >>>
> >>> With shar no longer being recommended for the submission of new ports,
> >>> I see no objection to removing this feature.  However, tar(1) should
> >>> keep the functionality.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I make no proposal to remove it from tar- that'd be really annoying
> >> after recommending people use tar(1) instead both here and in the patch
> >> below.
> > 
> > Isnt this a bit oxy-moronic?  Remove shar, yet point people to the exact
> > same behavior in another binary shipped with the system?  Your basically
> > leaving the foot shooting neck hanging rope in the system and doing zip
> > to remove the fact this fucntionality should NOT be removed.
> > 
> 
> No, because the pointer is gone once shar(1) is gone.  The functionality 
> will not removed, just the convenient front-end.  You still have tar(1).

If you dont remove the functionality the sum game is zero improvement.
You have done NOTHING but remove a pointer (shar) to a function.
In my book that is security through obscurity and just silly.
If the shar create function needs to go because of security it nneds
to go from ALL places.

> 
> > Your basically breaking things without any increase in security.
> > 
> > FIRM NO here.
> > 
> >>
> >>> We should consider replacing shar(1) by an implementation that just calls
> >>> into tar(1) to do its job.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Strongly prefer not to if we can avoid it (I'm not seeing any arguments
> >> that we really need it to be a first-class citizen); I view that as
> >> promoting functionality that we shouldn't be encouraging, along with
> >> providing a manpage.
> > 
> > Basically your just making it inconvinvient to get to the rope for those
> > that do know how to not hang themselves.
> > 
> 
> The rope is also great for hanging others, and it'd be great to shove it 
> behind all of the better tools in the shed.

Obscurity process is NOT what BSD does.

> What actual reasoning do you have for keeping shar(1) specifically? 

I didnt site any.  I sited that your removing half of the problem is
not a reasonable approach.  Either remove it totally or do not touch
it at all.

> Your entire argument so far boils down to "You shouldn't remove it," 

Wow, really, thats how you read it.  

> which isn't particularly compelling.  Its use should absolutely not be 
> encouraged in 2024 (or 2025, since that's apparently hiding around the 
> corner) and neither should any of the other abominations that we've 
> mentioned in this thread.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kyle Evans
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Rod Grimes                                                 rgrimes@freebsd.org



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