Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:42:07 +0100 From: Olivier Certner <olce@freebsd.org> To: Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Message-ID: <2367131.USjQqFH40Q@ravel> In-Reply-To: <20240109174318.MCIB6yhn@steffen%sdaoden.eu> References: <ZZqmmM-6f606bLJx@int21h> <5f370bce-bcdb-47ea-aaa7-551ee092a7d3@app.fastmail.com> <20240109174318.MCIB6yhn@steffen%sdaoden.eu>
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--nextPart3074382.Ovca90QLe3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner <olce@freebsd.org> To: Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:42:07 +0100 Message-ID: <2367131.USjQqFH40Q@ravel> In-Reply-To: <20240109174318.MCIB6yhn@steffen%sdaoden.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, > I would not exactly call this a gimmick. I wish I hadn't used that term since it attracts too much attention on itse= lf, making people forget it was part of a sentence that was quite balanced = and seemingly altering their judgement. I think you're confusing the need and the mechanism (or implementation). I= n substance, we (Robert and I) were talking about turning "atime" off *by d= efault*. What I tried to convey is that the needs that justify this mechan= ism are those of a minority in my view (and I'm certainly not opposed to be= educated if it's not true), and additionally that the "atime" mechanism ad= dresses these needs poorly. With that in mind, developing "relatime" to try to alleviate the shortcomin= gs of "atime" has a low ROI: It doesn't add the crucial functionality most = needs (like auditing) would require and doesn't even really address the I/O= shortcomings in some frequent scenarios. Deactivating "atime", by contras= t, doesn't require any development, suppresses all I/O overhead, and doesn'= t suppress any functionality for an overwhelming majority of uses (at least= , this is my current view; other inputs welcome). I did not say that the needs themselves are a gimmick, e.g., having a notif= ication of new mail (although, in this case, frankly, I'm on the verge of a= rguing it). Simply, relying on "atime" (or "relatime") for this is unneces= sary, as you must have understood reading the various previous answers in t= his thread. > On Linux mount(8) from https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux says >=20 > relatime > Update inode access times relative to modify or change time. Access > time is only updated if the previous access time was earlier than > or equal to the current modify or change time. (Similar to noatime, > but it doesn=E2=80=99t break mutt(1) or other applications that ne= ed to > know if a file has been read since the last time it was modified.) >=20 > and this is what i use, except for some noatime mount points > (/x/doc, /x/music, /x/pub, to be exact). It seems that the other answers (mostly those of Robert IIRC) have shown th= at this manpage text isn't up-to-date with current practices. Which need(s) of yours are you trying to address exactly by using "relatime= "? Thanks and regards. =2D-=20 Olivier Certner --nextPart3074382.Ovca90QLe3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCQAdFiEEmNCxHjkosai0LYIujKEwQJceJicFAmWeZm8ACgkQjKEwQJce JifVYQ//X8bK0vxCXlaDS8NaF6oBkhMUmOeuQtGiw0ZOBQUTyE016Q5J5eoQwEbr rMwRrcFW4T6WJdT5AjBLzpP1GoNRmYTh9DstpHkSbqEAkOFhkZYtIpR3Ju84J6d4 CHhgYunI6J4RlJcfi/f+kzvHFNmtmm2OH5v4kuOC4bz99M/Go32y3g6fXYX0xmWf 3H/Cu4KYpBB7VSaWQmiXHCTSkX2bsvZfmgbaj72vGpLMpny9OiMlUyqZt1Y3OClv jNkG/jaFHYYfKnHw4rcu3/rXMikq7lWqJsYhgGUgQg3nzYD/XFNjotW3Ja1btSK7 UWE7YIQW0CKauwobtd+FXkPxD3AIszhyVJmR7RAPdcoyJAz+dF2dq77OyBAT1bxC ceFrQpf47ZLe4eq1z7wAPyo0iEu6KCtGo5YdyURC7/4y3kcoaR9v4cwAhaiK9mRA T4aUUNpxMwfCI4C6PxS30yxy9nmy5fy7L7Yp1K1arj0mGacfO6AkpVEW1bBmWTuU uj6sHSxjTp/rfJPrA2UtxsqTWMN281WghBIcQsHknpAzLrjtv1o+/h4g1np2ehFs 1SjyIR+aOfDWdekeyveROlNLHclo2DbbQgncBZ0fgAFmCfLh6oqNZfWtnk6i1kTz mbg3HE/wpmFL/OjcGFsumOa56wPbUMf690yiCh5ME5wuHR05grw= =tguU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3074382.Ovca90QLe3--
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