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Date:      Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:25:42 -0600
From:      Adam Weinberger <adamw@adamw.org>
To:        araujo@freebsd.org
Cc:        Matthias Andree <matthias.andree@tu-dortmund.de>, Mathieu Arnold <mat@freebsd.org>, marino@freebsd.org, Sunpoet Po-Chuan Hsieh <sunpoet@freebsd.org>, ports-committers <ports-committers@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Ports Management Team <portmgr@freebsd.org>, freebsd-ports <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: blanket portmgr approval vs. non-fixing changes (was: svn commit: r417590 - in head/databases/db6: . files and 417595 (revert))
Message-ID:  <2A4F1FFE-8B27-4569-8CCA-D498B5235D18@adamw.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAOfEmZiSKSZMDs3vrpCn3mofY87U6w-kDoqq0X6b_fEpqgiCjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <201606261724.u5QHOLdG081392@repo.freebsd.org> <57701AEB.1050001@tu-dortmund.de> <AABF87BCD32C14B8477C3620@atuin.in.mat.cc> <5770A392.6010605@tu-dortmund.de> <84e4fcf5-7b99-1cc6-e6bd-d3c594a5d102@marino.st> <CAOfEmZj3PzOgcpxb3WO%2B%2BSmSADf2sCt9_sKQ6dCbgwz6pRV4nQ@mail.gmail.com> <D9A4D908FD34A6F242BBD895@atuin.in.mat.cc> <CAOfEmZhzaM7K-L1gWO9%2Bc2s2nSsQaPr1eP=%2Bg65m6-brmEQd=Q@mail.gmail.com> <91BC5F8F9FDB9246529D0693@atuin.in.mat.cc> <5770EAD2.4060302@tu-dortmund.de> <CAOfEmZiSKSZMDs3vrpCn3mofY87U6w-kDoqq0X6b_fEpqgiCjQ@mail.gmail.com>

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> On 27 Jun, 2016, at 3:27, Marcelo Araujo <araujobsdport@gmail.com> =
wrote:
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>=20
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> 2016-06-27 16:58 GMT+08:00 Matthias Andree =
<matthias.andree@tu-dortmund.de>:
> Am 27.06.2016 um 10:16 schrieb Mathieu Arnold:
> >
> >
> > +--On 27 juin 2016 16:10:36 +0800 Marcelo Araujo =
<araujobsdport@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > | 2016-06-27 16:02 GMT+08:00 Mathieu Arnold <mat@freebsd.org>:
> > |> | Read here for reference:
> > |> |
> > |> =
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/makefile-maintainer
> > |> | .html
> > |>
> > |> That pages says, exactly the opposite of what you are trying to =
says:
> > |>
> > |
> > | No it doesn't!
> > |
> > | And this is the normal workflow:
> > | 1) Port has a maintainer, and it needs update.
> > | 2) Open a PR with the patch.
> > | 3) After 2 weeks, and with timeout; anybody can commit it.
> > |
> > |
> > | And about the ownership and belong to the community, I do believe =
in that,
> > | that is the basic in a legal point of view.
> >
> > That page says that the maintainer has to be consulted, except for =
changes
> > covered by the blanket approval, where the change can be committed
> > immediately.
> >
> > In this case, Sunpoet had every right to commit the thing he did =
without
> > asking or notifying the maintainer.
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> TL;DR given at the very end.
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> 1. Given the portmgr@ rules, that is our current policy, that portmgr@
> as the overseers of the ports system have delegated, by the blanket
> approval, part of their ultimate responsibility to the public.
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> 2. What I was meaning to state was that (and I'll not pick at the kind
> soul who has modernized the port) we should only apply the blanket
> approval if ports have fallen into disrepair.
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> 2b. This was not the case with db6, the port wasn't known broken to =
me,
> so why do we permit and encourage going the fast path for changes that
> do not /repair/ a port (for instance, if it's not building, to fix
> misspellings), and I'm surprised because some two months ago, it has
> already gone through a modernization round after gahr's PR,
> <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D208740>, that =
also
> combined a feature addition and required a bit more work to get right,
> see changesets 415741 and 415743.
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> 3. What would have been bad about filing a PR in this case?
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> The argument "maintainers aren't doing it" is covered by the =
maintainer
> timeout.  Anything that does not need the fast path should go through
> some form of review, most naturally through a PR filed to the port's
> maintainer.
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> 4. Do we need to tighten up the set of required tests a committed does
> before committing non-maintainer updates?
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> I'm scratching my head over this one since the failure in r417590 that
> got remedied in r417595 was rather peculiar, and I'm not sure if =
anyone,
> including myself, would have figured that out.  It might have slipped
> through the cracks even if I'd reviewed it.
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> 4b. It's probably better to extend the committer's guide and/or =
porter's
> handbook and have a list of test recommendations where we list things
> that trigger a certain test requirement.  I. e. things to test IN
> ADDITION to the usual "poudriere testport" or "make DEVELOPER=3Dyes =
clean
> all check-plist package" and portlint coverage.  Meaning that if =
someone
> tweaks any of the WRK* and *DIR/*SRC-related variables, "also test =
'make
> clean extract do-patch makepatch' on a copy of the port directory" or
> thereabouts.
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> mat@ thanks for all the explanation and time.
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> Unfortunately, I still make things a bit manual at my side, but =
usually my testbed is:
> 1) Portlint.
> 2) Make and likes on i386 and amd64(clean vm).
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> I think, include more information about test recommendations is always =
good.
> =20
>=20
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> There seem to be at least two distinct camps, in one camp, maintainers
> go along Marcelo's and my trains of thought, in the other, maintainers
> cherish fast and low-ceremony progress, marino has argued along these
> lines, and some other portmgr@ members have pushed for progress in the
> past.
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> I don't mean to bikeshed or split up our project here, just refine our
> existing policies.
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> TL;DR:  I propose:
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> - the blanket approval should be tightened up a bit and encourage that
> non-trivial and non-urgent changes go through the PR and invoke
> mantainer timeout after the shortest possible period.
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> Personally, I like the first option! And in addition, we have =
phabricator as an option too, at least for src, the reviews are made =
very quickly.
> So, could be defined a short timeout, at least for those that are =
active and would like to help make a review, seems something reasonable.
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> Also I do understand about all the modernization and definitely we =
need it, maybe 2 days timeout is enough for an active maintainer to =
reply that he is busy or he is working on that.=20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> - we discuss about an assisting set of "change these variables
> foo.*regexp, and you also need to test 'make foo' and 'make bar'" =
rules
> in the form of a concise list.

Maintainership too often means that change requests get ignored for two =
weeks before they're committed.

Aside from large, complex, interconnected systems, I think that we =
should do away with ports maintainership entirely. Maintainership serves =
absolutely no purpose that peer-review wouldn't do better.

Any committer should be able to commit to any port. That used to be what =
ports@FreeBSD.org meant, that it was being maintained by everybody. But =
somehow, in the last few years that turned into a message that it's =
being maintained by nobody, so now ports *have* to be maintained by =
somebody, even if that person never touches it again.

# Adam


--=20
Adam Weinberger
adamw@adamw.org
http://www.adamw.org





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