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Date:      Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:14:07 +0100
From:      David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Mason Loring Bliss <mason@blisses.org>
Cc:        freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Allan Jude <allanjude@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: HOWTO articles for migrating from Linux to FreeBSD, especially for pkg?
Message-ID:  <2F4335C6-31F3-46C8-AEB9-3D615E305C48@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <20141020231526.GO6490@blisses.org>
References:  <20140811221043.492110d4@arch> <CAG=rPVdht0jYnpWjd0rkiy=Lv5cXUiz5e=4zvrLN9f-6sLHSow@mail.gmail.com> <20140813213718.4814f58c@arch> <53EC1214.9020505@pinyon.org> <CAG=rPVcUK3aHAVMQnd__yHGP8%2BfUFe_WN6eYi7A5UO2=SEEdOA@mail.gmail.com> <20141018121150.5aae6682@X220.alogt.com> <20141018145857.c17931841923f39c79464033@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20141020183253.GE6490@blisses.org> <5837e41bf824926f9c49325e1817aec8@ultimatedns.net> <54458B06.5050301@freebsd.org> <20141020231526.GO6490@blisses.org>

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On 21 Oct 2014, at 00:15, Mason Loring Bliss <mason@blisses.org> wrote:

> The second thing that would be useful would be a series of cheat =
sheets for
> various things. This can either be equivalent commands or equivalent =
systems.
> Let new folks know that LUKS is GELI and that md-raid1 is gmirror and =
so
> forth. Show common package handling commands for various Linux =
flavours and
> map them to pkgng and ports. For instance, what's the equivalent of =
"yum
> provides"? Or what do I do in place of "apt-cache search" or "zypper =
up" or
> similar.

I agree that this would be useful, but it requires someone familiar with =
both systems to write.  Perhaps you could help by coming up with a list =
of things that you did frequently with Debian and a description of what =
they did, then someone more familiar with the FreeBSD side can help fill =
in any gaps where you haven't yet worked out what the FreeBSD equivalent =
is (or, if there isn't a FreeBSD equivalent, then we have a useful =
feature request).

> Other things in the grab bag... It's generally said that ports and =
pkgs
> shouldn't mix, but there are at least a couple instances where it's
> unavoidable:
>=20
> I bet roughly no one who installs Subversion wants the FreeBSD bug =
report
> headers baked in by default, but there they are unless you rebuild =
from ports
> with a non-default configuration.

It's worth noting that the FreeBSD headers don't affect operation.  =
Subversion only adds the headers to the commit message if they're =
modified.  I think that the fix for this is to add a line at the top =
saying

# Things below this line are only included if modified

I find that I do occasionally use those in other projects.

> If you want to watch DVDs on your FreeBSD workstation, it's necessary =
to
> install libdvdcss, but you can't get it from pkgng because it's not =
there.
> Again, you must build from ports.

Really?  I've installed vlc from packages and it seems able to play =
DVDs.  I don't remember having to do anything special.  Perhaps I had an =
old version of libdecss installed.  I thought that CSS had been ruled =
not to be an 'effective copyright protection mechanism' in the US, so =
wasn't covered by the DMCA anymore.

> I have nothing against ports, but people are warned off of mixing =
packages
> and ports when clearly it's necessary sometimes.
>=20
> Oh, here's one. I *was* horrified by ports at first, until someone =
told me
> about "make config-recursive". It really makes me wonder why this =
isn't the
> default. I remember giving up on FreeBSD when 9.x was new because I =
had to
> build X from ports after the FreeBSD breach, and it seemed like the =
process
> was going to take a couple days of stuttering stops and starts as =
random
> packages I didn't want in some cases popped up between compiles. I =
learned
> some mechanism for saying "just take the defaults" but what I know now =
is
> that what I really wanted was "make config-recursive". Why, out of =
curiosity,
> is it not the default? That would seem better than documenting it =
harder.

The recommended way of building packages now is to use Poudriere.  The =
Poudriere section in the handbook is still very new and contributions =
are *very* welcome.  I think that having an example of 'how to build =
libdecss from ports' there might be a good idea.

There is a plan that each package set should come with a package =
containing the matching ports tree, so that you can build package from =
ports that are compatible with the binary ones.  That should make a lot =
of this easier.

I think the two cases for Poudriere that need to be in the handbook are:

- How to build a few custom packages but mostly use upstream for an =
individual

- How to build a local package repository for your organisation with a =
load of custom config options for packages built from ports and some =
custom local-only ports

> Ah, and one more for the grab bag. I strongly suspect that many folks =
coming
> from Linux are going to bristle at the notion of using Sendmail. I =
used to
> run it so I wasn't terribly bothered by it, but maybe pre-populating =
rc.conf
> with obvious bits that people can see and turn off would be nice. =
OpenBSD has
> a nice model of populating rc.conf and sysctl.conf fully, and it ends =
up
> being a pleasant tool. Those awash in wonder, coming from Linux, can =
say,
> "Look, it's all right here!"

We put those things in /etc/defaults/rc.conf, which makes merges easier =
on upgrade: the user doesn't touch /etc/defaults/rc.conf and the update =
tool doesn't touch /etc/rc.conf.  Again, if the handbook doesn't tell =
you to look in /etc/defaults/rc.conf then that's an oversight that we =
should fix.

It might be a good idea to move this thread to the -docs mailing list, =
as it seems to have identified a number of shortcomings in our =
documentation and it would be a good idea to try to find some docs =
people willing to help get them fixed.

David





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