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Date:      Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:22:58 +0200
From:      "IBS / Andre Oppermann" <andre@pipeline.ch>
To:        "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@u.washington.edu>
Cc:        Frank Pawlak <fpawlak@execpc.com>, Gary Kline <kline@tera.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Does it's true?
Message-ID:  <35979532.952629BA@pipeline.ch>
References:  <Pine.BSF.3.96.980628161802.2576A-100000@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu>

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Jason C. Wells wrote:
-snip-
> On the causes of crime and the effect punishment has there can be much
> debate because it is such an obtuse subject. I might in turn argue that
> Saudi Arabia has a low crime because of it's terrible punishments. I might
> argue that Switerzland has low crime because everyone is armed. I think
> such comparisons must be considered carefully. The US is not Switzerland
> or Saudi Arabia.

The situation here in Switzerland is very different to the US. It right
that nearly every man here has a weapon in his locker but that is a
rifle
from the military. They get intensive training on that weapon for 15
weeks
the first time and then they have to fire some rounds every year. So
these people are educated about the effect of the weapons and know
exactly
that it is only for the time of war. These weapons are commonly used in
family tragedies where the family father kill his family and himself
for some reason. These weapons are in practice never used for 'normal'
crime.

Pistols and such are not so easy to get (everyone over 18 can buy a
rifle,
but automatics are strictly prohibited), you have to prove your non-
criminal history and a successful weapon training. You're only allowed
to
carry handguns in it's case and not ready to fire. It very hard to get
a weapon carry permission and it's only possible for persons that can
prove a special need (such as bodyguards).

We have indeed problems with illegal weapons, mostly illegal imported
from former Yugoslavia (only ~200mi away). Very nasty things come
from there, i.e. 'gun pens' (looks like thick pen and if you click it,
it shoots into your face), hand grenades, etc. Those things are almost
exclusively used by drug and other (red light) gangs and only among
themselves.

In Switzerland more climbers die in the mountains than people are
murdered.

You are right that Switzerland has a lot of weapons but most of them
are rifles = inconvenient. No one carries a rifle all the time ;-).

> This still leaves us with how to end murderousness in the US. I do not
> think the death penalty will achieve this. Nor do I propose to abolish the
> death penalty. What I do believe is that mutual repsect for fellow
> citizens and for the law can reduce murderousness.

Here we don't have the death penalty but lifetime sentence, that are 25
years in prison and you can get probation after 15 years. Only psychos
go into safekeeping after that.

The problem is the following:
- Only someone who intentionally wants to kill someone thinks about the
  consequences
- Most people tend switch off their brain in conflict situations and try
  to use the most powerful tool they can get (a knife, weapon, etc.) and
  they clearly don't think about the consequences even they may face the
  death penalty

> How I would achieve this respect is difficult, but it includes a huge dose
> of education. Perhaps I have strayed from the "gun" issue here, but I
> think this statement follows from my fundamental position of "human"
> responsibilty. I don't believe in the "gun" problem but I do believe in
> the "human" problem.

Humans become 'unresponsible' (don't think anymore, kill or get killed)
in conflict situations, after that the conflict escalates and the most
powerful tool is used. If there is a weapon handy it will de used,
regardless of the consequences.

> If we can "fix" the human condition then perhaps we may have peace.

That would be impossible (until can something with drugs or genetic
manipulation against human behavior).

IMO it should be mandatory to learn how to deal with conflicts and how
to avoid / de-escalate them.

-- 
Andre Oppermann

CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer
Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG)
Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland
Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77
http://www.pipeline.ch    ibs@pipeline.ch

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