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Date:      Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:43:52 +0100
From:      Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>
To:        Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com>
Cc:        Charles Randall <crandall@matchlogic.com>, Dan Phoenix <dphoenix@bravenet.com>, Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>, Jos Backus <josb@cncdsl.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) 
Message-ID:  <36088.981481432@critter>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:39:24 PST." <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com> 

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In message <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com>, Matt Dillon writes:
>
>:
>:In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes:
>:>The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail
>:>queue.
>:>
>:>http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems
>:>
>:>Is this incorrect?
>:>
>:
>:It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should
>:do.  If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things
>:which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the
>:disk.
>:
>:--
>:Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>:phk@FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>:FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
>:Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
>
>    QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect.  No major filesystem -- be it
>    FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you
>    write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk
>    crash.  All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs,
>    when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a
>    consistent state.  Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing
>    this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a
>    softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments
>    worth of operations then a normal filesystem would.  And, I might add,
>    Reiser is the same way.
>
>    The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any
>    filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems),
>    is by calling fsync().
>
>    So I would stick with softupdates.

... provided that qmail calls fsync(2).

--
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.


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