Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:16:25 -0500 From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org> To: John Birrell <jb@cimlogic.com.au> Cc: Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@scc.nl>, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cross compilation goals. Message-ID: <3833EE19.A7DC5935@simon-shapiro.org> References: <19991117184034.A53402@dragon.nuxi.com>, <199911180559.WAA21245@harmony.village.org> <3833C40B.EC5290CF@scc.nl> <19991118212234.E13376@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
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John Birrell wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 10:16:59AM +0100, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > > Cross-compilation and cross-building don't share the same problem-space > > and each have a different set of goals (non necessarily disjunct). > > I think that cross-compilation is a superset of cross-building if you > want to make a distinction between the too. > > > My personal thoughts on the subject of the ability to make > > cross-compilers from within our source tree are *at this time* dominated > > by it's use for cross-building. I don't see a point to bloat our source > > tree with the ability to make a cross-compilation toolset for NT (for > > example) while there's this really neat ports collection in which we can > > add anything that's not directly related/necessary for out base-system. > > The build I have avoids bloat for those who don't want the cross-compilation > tools. I want the build system to be flexible enough to get tools "for > all seasons". To me, the build makefiles are the key to it. I rarely > get what I want out of Cygnus' configure shit^H^H^Htuff. > > I can easily cross-build FreeBSD sources targeted to NetBSD/m68k/aout > the way I build the compiler. And I can cross-build non-FreeBSD sources > targeted at LynxOS/PowerPC or NT/i386. The binutils makefiles in the > tree already support that. Extending them to other architectures is > trivial. I want the compiler build to be the same way. There is very > little bloat (just a few more makefiles) for those who only want to > build. > > I want to see FreeBSD become a serious contender as a development > platform (preferably out of the box). Haleluya! > > My suggestion is this: > > Let's talk cross-building first and fix our make world. When release 4.0 > > is out we have the time and the (inner) peace to discuss how we think we > > should help developers that eat cross-compilers for breakfast :-) > > I think we can do both at the same time. Agree. > We seem to disagree on the mechanics of how we should drive a cross-build. > _I_ think we should use MACHINE and MACHINE_ARCH which are set in make(1) > as a convenience for host builds, but can be overridden for cross-builds. > They are not there for any other make function AFAIK. I agree that the > make(1) man page doesn't support this, but I think that is just a few > paragraphs of documentation that can be "fixed" (or changed to suit the > new world order). Documentation fixes are easier, and more reliable than code fixes. Always. :-) > What I _don't_ want to see is gcc trying to interpret MACHINE_ARCH > or TARGET_ARCH or somehow trying to "discover" that it is cross-compiling. > I think we can just do what Cygnus does and build a dedicated version > of gcc for each target. A 22GB drive is $200. You are right, as this keeps the compiler simpler. > I want the makefiles (including .mk) to have control over how things build. > > I also don't want to see make(1) customized. I would like to ask that > we use the version of make from 2.2.5 (or whenever the -m switch was > first implemented) as the reference. If we can't do a cross-build with > an old version of make like that, then we're doing something wrong. > > At work I have to live with GNU make because of portability issues > across Solaris, NT, Linux and FreeBSD. I'm tempted to suggest that we > drop BSD make in favour of gmake. I bet a suggestion like that will > wake people up. 8-) I'm only half joking. Why not? Does it work? Can it execute our current makefiles correctly? I know ours make cannot run many for-gnu makefiles. > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > john.birrell@cai.com john.birrell@opendirectory.com.au > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message -- Sincerely Yours, Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG 404.664.6401 Simon Shapiro Unwritten code has no bugs and executes at twice the speed of mouth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message
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