Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:50:24 -0600 From: Joe Warner <jswarner@uswest.net> To: Thomas Good <tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org> Cc: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>, outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) Message-ID: <39350A90.302A2A63@uswest.net> References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000530210821.16057A-100000@mailhost.nrnet.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
I've been playing around with Linux (RH 5.1-6.1 & Caldera 2.2-2.3) for about 2 years now. I even joined a local LUG (linux users group). During one meeting, Wes Peters, who (among other duties) writes "The Daemon's Advocate" for Daemon News ---- http://www.daemonnews.org/200005/dadvocate.html, gave a presentation on FreeBSD and handed out free copies of the FreeBSD 3.4 release. After taking it home and installing it and running it for the first time, it struck me how FreeBSD just seemed to make more sense to me than Linux. I forwarded these thoughts onto Wes, along with my thanks and he responded by saying, "Yeah, me too. FreeBSD acts more like a cohesive whole where Linux has slices of brilliance along with other less desirable pieces." At the meeting, I remember him saying, "The Linux community, along with the open source movement is trying to save the world. The FreeBSD community is only trying to save the geeks!" 8^) Joe Thomas Good wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > > > Thomas Good wrote: > > > > > Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system > > > initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or > > > Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the > > > development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut > > > Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. > > > > I was meaning something a little different. Of course, underneath, all > > of the linuces are similar. However, over the top of that they all have > > a different veneer. For someone who doesn't know Unix inside and out, > > that veneer becomes important. They won't know each and every > > configuration file by heart. They won't know that Redhat stores foo.rc > > under /etc/foo while SuSE stores it under /etc/bar. So they'll do what > > the manual tells them to do, and fire up Linuxconf, or YaST, or COAS, or > > SAS, or whatever. This is the veneer, and it doesn't matter how much you > > David, > > I don't use linuxconf, YAST, Gnome Control Center (or whatever it's called), > CDE, the UnixWare desktop or /stand/sysinstall (after installation). > > I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where > I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much > the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. > > I don't like the Redhat thing of putting postgres stuff in /var/lib for > example. So I don't use RPMs. I grab the src and do the build and put > the binaries in /usr/local/pgsql. Where they belong in my view! > > It's the same with most any unix - you can pay the vendor for their > prefab binaries or do it yerself. I prefer the latter. And it works > on *any* linux or freebsd box. Once you get the concepts where they > put the conf files isn't that important. > > I don't think its that tuff to get what you want from unix. But it > takes some time to see the *big picture*. > > And here is my real point (ignore the one atop my head ;-) > It is *easier* to learn unix when you use more than one implementation. > Can I explain this clearly? I dunno...lemme try. > > UnixWare, my first unix (yeah what a way to get deflowered!) was a complete > mystery to me for awhile. So I learned some linux, against the advice > of my mentor ("You've got enought on your plate.") > > Then it began to click. So I procured Solaris, and FreeBSD - tried AIX too. > The more ways I saw - of doing the same thing - the more sense the overall > concept made. The ttymon process (for system logins) made alot more sense > to me after I learned getty/uugetty. Hopefully I haven't explained this > too badly. I tell my wife (a linguist) this: English grammar was utterly > meaningless to me until I got a handle on German. Then I had an 'aha!' > experience. Same with unix. Learning one set of rules was learning by > rote. Comparing two systems - and appreciating both - was achieving > a deeper understanding that transformed feeling sort of competent into > feeling a great fondness for my favourite OS. > > > know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And > > unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only > > work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless > > when you're faced with a Mandrake box. > > We are in agreement here my friend. It is like learning WordPerfect > as opposed to vi. ;-) > > > To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX > > is from HPUX. > > I think you overstate a bit here, d-man... > > > [ snip ... ] but at least you're learning generic all-purpose > > Unix instead of locking yourselves into a single distro. > > I disagree here...why? All the linuxes are is a kernel, a > filesystem, a whole bunch of great GNU code and an initialisation > strategy. Add in one or more package managers. Sounds like FreeBSD > to me. ;-) > > No RedHatter has to use linuxconf or Gnome...No FBSDer has to use > sysinstall. You can lift the hood on any unix you want. Use tarballs > and gcc instead of pkg_add or rpm -i. Right? > > And if you think the FBSD conf resembles Solaris or UnixWare, I dunno > about that one. And UnixWare is *AT&T Unix* - about as standard (in > theory anyhoo) as unix gets. (Before Novell and SCO got ahold of it > anyway. ;-) Bottom line: unix is unix. Maybe a diff paint job... > but the similarities are greater than the differences. > > When I hear that FBSD is more unix than linux is, I am reminded of the > old Japanese proverb: Every reverse side has a reverse side. ;-) > Speaking of which, I gotta get my reverse side into gear! > > Nice talking to you David, > Tom > > ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- > > Thomas Good MIS Coordinator > Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org > Phone: 718-354-5528 > Fax: 718-354-5056 > > /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?39350A90.302A2A63>