Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:33:54 -0500 From: Brian Adkins <brian@lojic.com> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD emulation for linux Message-ID: <4.1.19990323010146.00fbf1c0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990322221248.03ebdf10@localhost> References: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9903222133500.1749-100000@peloton.physics.mo ntana.edu> <4.2.0.32.19990322194937.03ee4600@localhost>
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At 10:42 PM 3/22/99 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >At 10:07 PM 3/22/99 -0700, Brett Taylor wrote: >>You've suggested the following things that I remember recently: >> >> - that the Linux emulator has been bad for FreeBSD > >It has. Unequivocally. Oh, a few people have found it useful as >a stopgap, but it is the ultimate reason for developers NEVER to >target the platform and is thus horribly and irreparably >destructive. Brett, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but if you want folks to take you seriously, you're going to have to stop making such outlandish statements. If you really think developers will "NEVER" target a platform because an emulator exists, you're clueless. And as far as "irreparably destructive", you're losin' it dude. >Has no one here learned from OS/2? Read my lips: emulating a >more popular platform is suicide. What part of that sentence >don't you understand? Are you really suggesting that OS/2's main problem was the fact that it emulated Windows? Please. >> - that a FreeBSD emulator should be created for Linux in the hopes >> that this would make people write directly for FreeBSD >> >>You are the _only_ one I've heard support this. Not one person to my >>recall has suggested this is a workable idea other than you. > >Bull. Terry Lambert has also supported this idea, and I've seen >messages from one or two other folks that were at least somewhat >supportive. But, of course, the naysayers are more vocal, because >it's easier to advocate doing nothing than to help change things for >the better. And a lot of folks walk away if support for an idea >isn't unanimous, or nearly so. Where are you coming from man? Do you really think the naysayers are such because it's *easier* to advocate doing nothing? Do you really think they aren't helping change things for the better just because they aren't supporting your idea? How egocentric are you? >> Sure it'd be >>nice if every app was built to run natively on FreeBSD, but it's not >>reality nor is that likely to change just because an emulator exists. > >It is not even POSSIBLE unless an emulator exists. > >>Companies will say "sure there's this FreeBSD emulator for Linux, but they >>have roughly 1/6th the number of installations _and_ can emulate Linux. > >The latter is the bigger problem. Again, Linux emulation has been a huge >blow to the platform. At some point, after Linux emulates FreeBSD and FreeBSD >wins native ports, FreeBSD's emulation of Linux should be deprecated. It is not a fact that Linux emulation has not been a "huge blow" to the platform; it's your opinion. >>The problem Brett is that all of the things you have suggested/proposed >>have _no_ backing from anyone but you (for whatever reasons), > >Bull. However, it's a well-known online phenomenon that once the flamers >(such as yourself) get going, those in support of an idea tend to be >dissuaded from voicing their support because they don't want to be flamed. >Or, again, they change their minds when they see that support for the >idea isn't unanimous, or because an "opinion leader" (such as Jordan) >has said something against it. Geez! Now you're accusing folks who don't support you of being cowards! The great thing about an OS such as FreeBSD is that you've got the source code dude! I think your energies would be better spent producing architecture and design documents that could be reviewed - ideas get much clearer when expressed in a concise fashion. >>As it is I haven't even seen you attempt to fix or maintain one port. > >And I may never attempt it. You are very quickly convincing me that >my efforts will be unwelcome or unappreciated. Don't be ridiculous! Of course the effort would be appreciated (just not the talk). >>Since you've been posting regularly to -advocacy, the only thing I've seen >>from you is grandiose ideas > >Not "grandiose" -- however, they do require a team of people to do. That's >why I've posted messages asking for support. By not only refusing to support >them but attempting to shoot them down, you are telling me -- on behalf >of the Cabal of FreeBSD Insiders -- that there's no point in attempting to >work >on advocacy or even contributing code. Fine. Then I won't. You can have your >status quo and your failing efforts at PR. I'll stick with the local users' >group and will probably finish the NIC driver I've been working on, but don't >expect more from me, since it's clearly unwelcome. Gee, I haven't seen anyone tell you not to work on advocacy or contribute code. >Brett, Jordan, Wes: you've just alienated a contributor who's already done a >lot >of advocacy and wanted to do more -- plus a bunch of coding besides. I hope >you're >proud. > >--Brett Glass I have to admit I think you're alienating yourself and if you're only willing to work on the project if everyone agrees with your ideas, then I think you're in for a disappointment. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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