Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:21:37 -0600 From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Investors are getting concerned Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19990910214924.0471d100@localhost> In-Reply-To: <17364.937017210@localhost> References: <Your message of "Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:00:08 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990910185453.04482720@localhost>
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At 07:33 PM 9/10/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >They should have figured that out a lot earlier than now - it's been a >matter of public record since the beginning, as Terry Lambert has just >demonstrated in his own posting, and ignorance of the US Tradmark and >Patent office website (or telephone inquiries number) is no excuse, >especially if you're supposedly dealing with real businessmen. Well, at this point I'm still in the EARLY stages of due diligence, and while I didn't already know the details I did know (from the conflicting notices on different products) that there was SOMETHING amiss. Terry confirmed what I'd found out: that Thomas's Register showed Walnut Creek as owning the trademark. But FreeBSD, Inc. needs to own it, and EXPLICITLY grant us the right to use it, before we can stick it on a product. "We haven't gone after anyone" is simply not good enough, and I hope you'll understand why. >And while it hasn't exactly been trumpeted from the treetops, it >hasn't been a secret either (how can it, trademark registrations are >public record!) and quite a few others have discovered this for >themselves over the years and asked me in private email just what the >deal was. I've told them all the same thing: Walnut Creek CDROM's >ex-VP registered it on our behalf quite some time back, back when we >couldn't even afford the filing fees ourselves, and transferring it to >FreeBSD, Inc. control has been a matter of laxity in filing the >paperwork (and paying Walnut Creek CDROM back their registration fees, >to keep it honest and straight-forward all around), not some >Machiavellian plot to hijack the FreeBSD project name and sell our >technology to Libya. Maybe. But it's got a lot of folks here very antsy, nonetheless, because to them it is an indication -- once again -- that the playing field may be tilted very far toward Walnut Creek insofar as distributions go. >Which brings us to the second point, which is what the owners of the >trademark would do, be it Walnut Creek CDROM OR FreeBSD, Inc., if you >came out with the Evil Brett Distribution and called it FreeBSD. There should be an established, published policy regarding the use of the name. Otherwise, there has to be a contract; I couldn't proceed without one or the other, and neither could anyone else who was considering a distribution. Now, if you are paperwork-shy (as you say), the former is clearly a better way to go. Why not establish a policy and put it on the Web site as part of the first section of the FreeBSD FAQ? I have already indicated my willingness to submit a proposed policy as a PR. >You've also already had numerous examples of FreeBSD derived products >cited in this mailing list, none of which anyone has gone after for >being evil, and if you can't derive a reasonable distinction between >good and evil from that then there's not much more information I or >anyone else could give you which would be of much help. I've already >said it once during this increasingly pointless thread and I'll say it >just once more: We, the FreeBSD project members and the custodians of >the trademark, have no beef with anyone who does good things and >doesn't sully our good name. Well, anything that meets MY standards is going to be a good thing. I won't let it out the door otherwise. >Finally, as far as who the FreeBSD project decides to acknowledge on >its web pages and in its documentation is concerned, being listed >there is a privilege rather than a right (BSD copyright or not) and >the project has always reserved the right to be nice to its friends. Hopefully, anyone who grows the user base and does good things for FreeBSD would be considered friendly and find a place on the Web site and in the docs. And any project involving open source that DOES make money should contribute back to the development project. What I'm concerned about is that NO competitor of Walnut Creek is mentioned ANYWHERE, and that the heading which reads "Vendors" is conspicuously empty. >What you seem to be asking for here, and I'm sure you'll correct me if >I'm wrong, I will... >is some sort of special credit towards doing good works >before any of those good works are actually done, No, I'm evaluating whether to give YOU credit for fairness before you show it. I *am* concerned that you haven't mentioned Cheap Bytes or -- what's the other one -- Juniper? -- at all on the Web site, even though they're doing a lot to popularize FreeBSD. >and frankly it's >both this attitude and the involvement of a principal who has always >seemed far more hostile to the project than kind which makes me very >disinclined to grant any such credit. If I were hostile to the project, I wouldn't even be TRYING to hammer out a way to do a distribution; I'd be flying to Canada to go cycling with Theo de Raadt by now. And I certainly wouldn't be trying to do something that would popularize FreeBSD. > If anything, we're starting from a position of deep demerit I could say the same from this vantage point. Perhaps it's the electronic medium, but the reception has sure seemed cold and hostile from this end of the wire. >and it makes me wonder if your >investors wouldn't be better off in finding someone else to spearhead >the relationship with their BSD-in-waiting, whichever of the two >options they might pick. Sorry, but I'm the one. I'm the only one with sufficient technical know-how, exposure to the open source community, experience in the software business, and big ideas for the future to be the front man. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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